Leap of faith...

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi all


I've found a rather interesting newspaper article from 1888, that highlights a potential new person of interest in the murder of Elizabeth Stride...

"Johnny Donnelley"


However, the idea behind this man being considered a valid person of interest; is something that will undoubtedly require a leap of faith from those of us who are willing to look at something new, and from a fresh angle.

I therefore ask you all to bear with me as I lay out my initial findings and how I believe they may be of value later on down the line.

So, here we go...

I was looking through various newspaper articles concerning the Stride murder, and I came across an article that appears to be unique, due to it's odd yet intriguing nature.

I will attach the article below, but the summary of the story is thus...

On Monday 8th October, the South Wales Daily news printed a rather odd story...

On Saturday 6th October, a "respectfully dressed middle-aged woman" entered the Cardiff Central Police station to tell them she believed she knew the name and whereabouts of the Whitechapel murderer.
The policeman appears to have taken her story but dismissed her claim because the woman told the policeman of duty that she was a "Spiritualist."

Now at this point, I would normally have moved on to another article, because quite frankly, I find the idea that a spiritualist claiming to know the answers rather preposterous.
However, I chose to read on for the sheer fun of it..and as I read on I started to have a slight nugget of doubt toward my initial dismissive stance.

On that basis, I would urge you all to read on...

The woman told the police that on the previous evening (5th October) she and a few others had held a seance and the spirit of Stride had come through to them.
They then asked Stride a series of questions about the murder and this is a summary of what the woman claimed she was told...

The following is a VERBATIM RECORD of what the woman told the police...

When asked if she knew who murdered her, Stride replied...

"By a man named Johnny Donnelley"

followed by...

"He lives at 13 Commercial..."

The group were unable to determine Commercial (road OR street?)

Stride was then asked...

"Did he commit ALL the Whitechapel murders?"

Stride replied...
"No"...
she continues...
"He is one of a gang of 12 who have sworn to commit these crimes, and different members of the gang have done the various murders"

Then it suddenly ended and that was that.


Now I appreciate that you may be thinking the same as what I thought... something along the lines of "what a load of s....!"

But just for fun and giggle, I decided to delve a little deeper for this Johnny Donnelley...

My first point of call was this website and I found that despite the article being listed on the newspaper articles section, it doesn't state the name Johnny Donnelley. It would appear that he has never been discussed on this site.

I then looked at the sister site, JTR Forums and was relieved to find that the article had at least been highlighted and mentioned once on a thread called "Jack the Ripper Tours (Richard Jones)"

Howard Brown shared the article on post 734 and a reply to that post came in the following post 735, by the late Robert Linford.
Robert states that Johnny Donnelley died in 1887!

Based on Robert's post 735 I thought that was the end of it, and I felt a little silly for wasting my time on even considering following a lead based on a ridiculous story.

I have not found any other mentions or discussions of Johnny Donnelley and probably for good reason.

BUT...

Because of the person I am, my inquisitive nature got the better of me and I thought, why not just look a little deeper...

After a little digging, I was astonished to find a new piece of information concerning the aforementioned person of interest, that was hidden deep in the various newspaper articles.
This piece of information is particularly interesting, because it confirms that a Johnny Donnelley was alive and well at the time of the murders and beyond...

Furthermore... I have found evidence that he narrowly escaped being convicted of murder...

I will continue on a separate post...


RD

[The Rookie Detective]

Here's the article in question...

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi all


Well, it's good to see this particular thread took off...ha ha!

"If at first, you don't succeed..."



So, I'd like to continue on from my initial post...because I believe it may be of value.


The woman who walked into the Cardiff Central police station on the 6th October 1888 and told the policeman she was a spiritualist and that the name of Stride's killer was a man named "Johnny Donnelley," may not be as ridiculous a claim as it would first appear to be.

There is one rather spooky coincidence that relates to this name.

I was trawling through the newspaper archives and stumbled across an astonishing story that connects an address in Dorset Street to a man named John Donnelly.


This address is 38 Dorset Street.

Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that 38 Dorset St is the SAME address that Michael Kidney and Stride were staying at shortly before Stride left Kidney and went to go and lodge in Flower and Dean Street for a few nights before she was murdered.

Allow me to introduce to you a man, who I submit as a new person of interest to the case.

A man named "John Donnelly"

John Donnelly lived in Dorset St for several years BEFORE and AFTER the Whitechapel murders.

Prior to settling longer term in Dorset St, he lodged in several different lodging houses in the vicinity.

He was a Stone Mason originally from the northwest.

He had a common-law wife who lived with him at number 12 Dorset Street.

However, John Donnelly had a PRIVATE workshop in Dorset Street....at 38 Dorset St.

His private workshop was located in the cellar of 38 Dorset St and was only accessible via a ladder

What's interesting about this man, is that in 1894 something shocking occurred in the cellar of 38 Dorset St...

I have uncovered a newspaper article that I would encourage you to read...

And which I will upload in my next post...

I have been researching John Donnelly for several months and I believe he is a man who warrants further investigation.

My question is... Is it significant that a man named "John Donnelly" had a private workshop in the cellar of 38 Dorset St, the exact same address that Kidney and Stride were residing at, and that a woman walks into a police station and states that a man named "Johnny Donnelley" murdered Stride?

How did the woman in Cardiff state the name of a man, whose name matches a man who had a private workshop in the cellar of the address in Dorset St that the victim had only recently left?

The article I am about to upload relates to the mysterious death of John Donnelly's common-law wife in the cellar of 38 Dorset St...

After reading the article, I'd like to know who among you believes that John Donnelly's actions are suspicious, and whether you agree with me, that he murdered her in the cellar?

All it takes is a "Leap of Faith"


RD

[The Rookie Detective]

Worth a read...



I believe he murdered Alice.

I also believe this man could have murdered Stride.


RD

[Abby Normal]

as i mentioned in the other thread, very interesting stuff RD.

I missed this post before, but hopefully it gets some traction now.

[Filby]

A leap of faith indeed here. The supposed report of a police record gives it some out-of-context sense of legitimacy but the foundation of it all is too unbelievable. Even more so Liz's spiritual feedback all a bit too nicely structured and telling. Interesting I will admit though the coincidence of the name/address.

[The Rookie Detective]

A leap of faith indeed here. The supposed report of a police record gives it some out-of-context sense of legitimacy but the foundation of it all is too unbelievable. Even more so Liz's spiritual feedback all a bit too nicely structured and telling. Interesting I will admit though the coincidence of the name/address.

Do you mean the coincidence that a woman in Cardiff, named a man who happened to run a private workshop in the cellar of the same address that the victim Stride had lived shortly before she was murdered, and the man named as her killer went on to almost certainly attempt to murder his paramour in the same private workshop?

Yes... that is a fairly big coincidence.

RD

[Filby]

Do you mean the coincidence that a woman in Cardiff, named a man who happened to run a private workshop in the cellar of the same address that the victim Stride had lived shortly before she was murdered, and the man named as her killer went on to almost certainly attempt to murder his paramour in the same private workshop?

Yes... that is a fairly big coincidence.

RD

I agree that's what makes your theory of interest but personally I've become a bit desensitized to addresses shared in Whitechapel and the intersection of how those play out with witnesses, suspects, families. So many have been brought forth to support a theory I'm a bit overwhelmed at times. But bravo for your research and your work. Nicely done to add an interesting dimension to the case.

[Kattrup]

Do you mean the coincidence that a woman in Cardiff, named a man who happened to run a private workshop in the cellar of the same address that the victim Stride had lived shortly before she was murdered, and the man named as her killer went on to almost certainly attempt to murder his paramour in the same private workshop?

Yes... that is a fairly big coincidence.

RD

Hi RD

Well, coincidences may be bigger or smaller, and more or less constructed.

Aren’t you glossing over the fact that the John Donnelly named as the killer lived at 13 Commercial Street/Road?

Did your Donnelly have a connection to that address?

Otherwise, what you’re essentially doing is looking for any John Donnelly with a connection to any address associated with any of the victims. In which case, in my opinion, the coincidence shrinks a bit in importance.

You found a suitable Donnelly and he even comes with a creepy maybe-murder, so it’s not uninteresting at all, I definitely commend you for it. But I think the Ripper-connection comes from the psychic revelation and your guy doesn’t fit - yet.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Worth a read...

Good post, RD, 'definitely worth a read.

'Seems suspect, particularly in the context of the bruises. In the event Donnelly wasn't telling all that he knew then that's a bad man capable of extreme violence.

I've had a quick look 'round the internet at census records and:

John Donnelly, the marble mason (as per the article you posted), was living at 3 Dorset Street (a lodging house judging by the number of people living there) with his wife Alice in 1891. He was from Manchester; she was from London. He was 39 in 1891.

That would place him in the FBI's age profile for 'Jack The Ripper'.

He didn't move very far in the space of 3 years (12 Dorset/3 Dorset Street). Given his wife was from London and they lived in London, there's a decent chance they met in London. Given they were 39 and 38 years old in 1891, there's a decent chance they were married by 1888, i.e. he was living in London in 1888. All in all, there's a decent chance he was living in Dorset Street or close to it in 1888 and the following years.

3 Dorset Street, the 1891 address, looks like it's about 10 doors up from Miller's Court on the opposite side of the street and it's directly opposite the workshop at 38 Dorset Street.

It's been claimed by a few that George Hutchinson was covering for the man in the wideawake hat. George told the agency news reporter that he saw a man go into a lodging house in Dorset Street while George was undertaking his vigil (reported in The Times). Perhaps he was covering for that man, i.e. anyone witnessing the man going into the Dorset Street lodging house and viewing it as suspicious, 'no need, I saw Mary go into her room with Puss in Boots and not leave. That timeframe would broadly fit with Blotchy being the murderer, Dr Bond believed the murder took place earlier than others did; it would broadly fit with Blotchy going into Mary's room prior to midnight, the singing stopping and the lights being turned out, the amount of time spent in the room, leaving at some point during George's supposed vigil undertaken for no good reason, and disappearing into his lodging house in Dorset Street.

This is all wildly speculative on my part with no evidential basis whatsoever and it does conform to the: "I'm just making this up as I go along" style of reasoning, but: I reckon it would be worth looking into him. The lottery is odds of what, 13 million to 1? Somebody wins it!

In the event he turns up somewhere described as having 'a blotchy face', then you really are onto something!

'Definitely worth a look into, RD. Personally, I think the WM is in the information somewhere; it merely needs something unearthing to connect the information.

Edit: it looks like 3 Dorset Street wasn't a lodging house, it's not listed as a registered lodging house and the number of people living there is much lower than 10 and 11 Dorset Street which were registered lodging houses.

[Belloc]

After reading the article, I'd like to know who among you believes that John Donnelly's actions are suspicious, and whether you agree with me, that he murdered her in the cellar?

Alice Cording's death record:



Her full name was Alice Harriet Cording, born at Shoreditch in 1854. Her father was a tailor who was declared bankrupt and died in 1870.

[The Rookie Detective]

Hi RD

Well, coincidences may be bigger or smaller, and more or less constructed.

Aren’t you glossing over the fact that the John Donnelly named as the killer lived at 13 Commercial Street/Road?

Did your Donnelly have a connection to that address?

Otherwise, what you’re essentially doing is looking for any John Donnelly with a connection to any address associated with any of the victims. In which case, in my opinion, the coincidence shrinks a bit in importance.

You found a suitable Donnelly and he even comes with a creepy maybe-murder, so it’s not uninteresting at all, I definitely commend you for it. But I think the Ripper-connection comes from the psychic revelation and your guy doesn’t fit - yet.

An extremely valid point, and I appreciate your feedback and comments.

13 Commercial St address was the precursor to the modern-day social housing scheme- Peabody Buildings.

The Peabody Buildings were a step up from the Lodging Houses. Lots of working-class men and women stayed there.

I know virtually nothing else about the Peabody set up, although I do know that Peabody Buildings has been mentioned in the Ripper forum before on a different thread. I am unaware of the context of that thread, but I rings a bell.

But you're right, we must not gloss over ANY of the statement.

There's also a mention of a group of men being involved, a group of 12 who are all complicit in the murders of various women.

I am not sure about that point, but again,it can't be overlooked.

Thank you for your post.


RD

[The Rookie Detective]

Alice Cording's death record:



Her full name was Alice Harriet Cording, born at Shoreditch in 1854. Her father was a tailor who was declared bankrupt and died in 1870.

Ah excellent, thank you.

I knew her death was registered as "natural" causes, but I hadn't seen her death record.

At the time she went to his private workshop in the cellar of 38 Dorset St, Donnelly claimed they had already split up and gave the impression she was trying to get back with him.
He claimed she had a fit and fell into the fire, her face being burnt in particular.

She was in his cellar for a few days before she was eventually taken away to the infirmary.

The cellar was only accessible via a ladder, so I am not sure how the alarm was eventually raised, nor how she was taken from the cellar to the infirmary.

One thing is clear; had her death not been ruled as natural causes, then Donnelly would have likely been facing a charge of manslaughter; because her body was covered in bruises and filth. Her face burnt.

We will never know if she did have a fit and fell into the fire, or whether he pushed her face into the fire and the shock triggered syncope and she passed out.

She was finally taken away to the infirmary days after she "fell" into the fire.
His considerable delay is very suspect

RD