Likely Lipski Link

[Scott Nelson]

Some guy named Finch?

[The Rookie Detective]

Bump up for an excellent thread.

A pat on the back to whoever started this thread.

[Wickerman]

The Irish Times referred to "a youth about twenty years of age named Joseph Koster".

Yes, I read it, I'm not saying it isn't his name, or a name he was known by. Koster is a real name, just like Smith is a real name, but we know how that came about, much the same way.
Was Joseph a Coster, is that why he was known by that name?
The story is obviously distorted, but there may have been a young man in the yard named Joseph who was one of the first to see the body.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

The Irish Times referred to "a youth about twenty years of age named Joseph Koster".

[Wickerman]

The thing about that story is, people who plied their trade as a Costermonger were referred to casually as Koster. Diemshutz was a Koster, he was a Costermonger. I'm pretty sure Mayhew describes this in his London Labour and the London Poor.
So in a manner of speaking a Koster did find the body.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I have doubts about the grapes being real.

I assume you mean this quote: "The body was not found by Koster, but by a man whose name I do not know, a man who goes out with a pony and barrow ...". I'm not able to read much into that quote about how much he knows about Koster. It sounds to me like he thought for one reason or another that someone might have thought that Koster found the body, but he could have thought this while knowing very little about Koster or while knowing a lot.

Yes that's the one.

What I find interesting about Koster is that he rated a mention in both the Times and the Irish Times. Not exactly small circulation papers looking for a scoop. According to Louis Diemschitz, he prodded the body when perched up on his costermonger's barrow, after his pony lurched to the left. I find that difficult to believe, given that he stated at the inquest; "The barrow was past the body when I got down to see what it was." I think the prodding occurred at later point, probably when other members were by the body. So, I think who discovered the body is an open question. At a guess, I would say that the lad referred to in the Times report, is Isaac Kozebrodski.

[Mark J D]

... As was discussed a while back I dont believe that there was any pub on Berner street near the club, and the story suggest that Pipeman was standing outside a pub. The only place Im aware of that was still serving beer to patrons, at that time, on that night, was the club. Might be a connection there.

Doesn't the 1888 Post Office Directory settle this, squire? Not a pub, but a beer shop? What I in my childhood used to hear people call 'an offie' -- and likely not open at the time discussed...




M.

[GBinOz]

Yes, I think she was killed by the Ripper and he was none of the three listed. I think he showed up after the B.S. man left.

c.d.

That's interesting c.d.. Can you expand your theory? Do you think he came from the street or the club, and after BSM left, did Stride stay in the gateway? Where was Parcelman?

Cheers, George

[c.d.]

That's true, and Parcelman was seen by Smith. So are you thinking that she was killed by someone other than one of these three?

Cheers, George

Yes, I think she was killed by the Ripper and he was none of the three listed. I think he showed up after the B.S. man left.

c.d.

[GBinOz]

Pipeman would have faced the same problem as the B.S. man -- committing a murder after being seen by Schwartz and/or B.S. man if they were not together.

c.d.

That's true, and Parcelman was seen by Smith. So are you thinking that she was killed by someone other than one of these three?

Cheers, George

[c.d.]

A small amendment and I'm with you:
Could Pipeman have decided not to give chase and instead go back to Stride?...to either help her or kill her?

Cheers, George

Pipeman would have faced the same problem as the B.S. man -- committing a murder after being seen by Schwartz and/or B.S. man if they were not together.

c.d.

[Lewis C]

Hershberg seemed to know a lot and be very observant. He could the see the cachous, even claiming to know the approximate number of them. On the other hand, he said nothing about grapes. Were they real? Reading his quote, do you get the impression that he knew who Koster was? The name appears elsewhere in that edition.

I have doubts about the grapes being real.

I assume you mean this quote: "The body was not found by Koster, but by a man whose name I do not know, a man who goes out with a pony and barrow ...". I'm not able to read much into that quote about how much he knows about Koster. It sounds to me like he thought for one reason or another that someone might have thought that Koster found the body, but he could have thought this while knowing very little about Koster or while knowing a lot.

[GBinOz]

Could Pipeman have whistled after Schwartz had run off but decided not to give chase and instead go back to Stride?...to either help her or kill her?

A small amendment and I'm with you:
Could Pipeman have decided not to give chase and instead go back to Stride?...to either help her or kill her?

Cheers, George

[Michael W Richards]

Could Pipeman have been the early whistle man who worked for the WVC?

The fact that he didn't CHASE Schwartz to try and apprehend him (with BS man putting the blame onto Schwartz for the assault on Stride and Pipeman following Schwartz) OR that he didn't apprehend BS man either, would suggest otherwise and I find it doubtful that Pipeman was one of the WVC.

Could Pipeman have whistled after Schwartz had run off but decided not to give chase and instead go back to Stride?...to either help her or kill her?

RD

That is an interesting suggestion. As was discussed a while back I dont believe that there was any pub on Berner street near the club, and the story suggest that Pipeman was standing outside a pub. The only place Im aware of that was still serving beer to patrons, at that time, on that night, was the club. Might be a connection there.

Im wondering how many of these witnesses actually had a direct link with the club. Goldstein? Yes. Schwartz? He knew Wess from a few years earlier in Paris, member..?Pipeman? What about this BSM fella, could he be hired security for that night? The original speaker was to be William Morris, a rather polarizing figure at the time in the Socialist community in London. He had declined to speak at the club when asked by Wess stating in a letter to Wess that his version of what a Socialist was was quite different than what he believed the values espoused at that club represented. He used the term Anarchists himself, which is not what he spoke about when discussing Socialism. Interesting sidenote, that letter surfaced on an Antique Roadshow episode.

The club had hired security when they originally had asked him to speak on that night, perhaps they were unable to cancel them.

Question....if it can be determined that these witnesses were members or attendees that night, how would we percieve their statements? Ive suggested here for years...and taken untold amounts of venom for it....that the paid staff members there at the time would have concerns that the club or an attendee was thought to have killed Stride. She is on their property, they are Immigrant Jews, who Anderson claimed the killer had been "ascertained" to be after door to door searches in September while he was in Paris. Seems like they should have had some concerns about possible repercussions, for the club and perhaps any Immigrant Jews in the area. Might also illuminate the rationale for erasing the GSG.

Interesting.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Could Pipeman have been the early whistle man who worked for the WVC?

Only if Schwartz misinterpreted what he was told to say.