Would It Be The Job of the Police Or the Grand Jury to Discredit Schwartz's Testimony

[Hunter]

Hi Lynn,

Well, the obvious answer would be that Swanson didn't consider Brown's statement useful enough to include in his report to the HO-- maybe even confusing.

He concentrated on descriptions circulated by the police and offered comparisons and options to display some pattern as to how the investigation was being conducted, while being as concise as possible.

[lynn cates]

testimony

Hello Cris. Thanks.

Makes sense. I have never been overjoyed with his testimony either.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

My point wasn't who originated the idea, but that it wasn't exclusive to Anderson on the 23rd October.

Hi, I had not realized this was what you were thinking.

Anderson's comment had nothing to do with the previous observation by Warren (as you call it, The Wider Picture), Warren was referring to the ongoing state of affairs from the first murder.

What Anderson wrote on the 23rd (ie; not having a clue) was his summary of the report written by Swanson on 19th Oct. which had been requested by the Home Office.

***

On the subject of Schwartz.

I may be mistaken but I was under the impression that the later sentence by Anderson where he wrote:

"...the activity of the police has been to a considerable extent wasted through the exigencies of sensational journalism, and the action of unprincipled persons, who, from various motives, have endeavoured to mislead us."

Had been suggested to 'possibly' refer to Schwartz, but I think the real meaning is:

Sensational journalism = The letter signed Jack the Ripper.
action of unprincipled persons = The subsequent avalanche of Ripper coorespondence.

Nothing alluding to Schwartz at all.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Lynn,

Well, the obvious answer would be that Swanson didn't consider Brown's statement useful enough to include in his report to the HO-- maybe even confusing.

He concentrated on descriptions circulated by the police and offered comparisons and options to display some pattern as to how the investigation was being conducted, while being as concise as possible.

Thats so illogical it hurts Hunter......How would that be the obvious answer when Brown does appear at the Inquest and Schwartz does not?

Browns woman did not have a flower pinned to her....did the killer do that, or did PC Smith see someone else with a flower at 12:35am?

Follow the evidence amigo...not your beliefs. Scwartz...not at Inquest...Brown, at Inquest.....so...what did they believe about the events of 12:45 as described by Israel, if they were not presented, noted, referenced or even mentioned?

Cheers

[Cogidubnus]

Going with the evidence

And yet Schwartz still, according to all the remaining correspondence, still, apparently believed in by the police, a fortnight after the inquest is done and dusted...puzzling isn't it...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

police

Hello Dave.

"still, apparently believed in by the police"

Perhaps. Better, still believed by at least SOME of them.

Cheers.
LC

[Paddy]

The Flower

Hi Michael,

"Browns woman did not have a flower pinned to her....did the killer do that, or did PC Smith see someone else with a flower at 12:35am?"

Oviously one possible lead for the police to follow
So where did the flower come from anyway?

Pat.............................

[lynn cates]

flower

Hello Pat.

"So where did the flower come from anyway?"

Excellent question. Seems likely that:

1. She bought it.

or

2. A gentleman friend gave it her at the beginning of the evening.

What do you think?

Cheers.
LC

[Garry Wroe]

Liz might have struggled more than the other victims making it harder for him to cut

The medicos discovered nothing relating to Stride’s body or clothing indicative of a struggle, CD.

her scarf might have gotten in the way

Since Jack the Ripper’s knife was capable of notching bone structure, CD, I doubt that a neckerchief would have hindered its progress unduly.

he might not have had as good an angle as he did before

Possibly, CD. But then he managed to manoeuvre Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly without too much difficulty. The absence of defence wounds to Stride’s hands and arms would also appear to rule out the possibility of a struggle immediately before the throat was cut.

his hand was sweaty and he might not have had as good a grip as he did before.

Perhaps. But that doesn’t explain the absence of strangulation or mutilation. Or why Stride was laid on her side rather than on her back in preparation for abdominal mutilation. Or indeed why her likely killer assaulted her in full view of two eyewitnesses.

I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence.

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Garry

I must confess I currently favour distraction owing to rude disturbance at precisely the relevant time...but am open to persuasion...

All the best

Dave

[Paddy]

The Flower

Hi Lynn,

I think the flower could have been brought for her.

Even now in some London pubs hawkers sell flowers (usually a rose).
Boyfriends eager to impress are usually their customers.

Dont men give their dates a corsage sometimes in the States? Or am I showing my age? I was presented with one in 1972.

There seems to be so much mention of the flower on Liz, yet no clue...

Pat................

[Paddy]

Hi Gary

I simply look at the evidence, CD, and in the case of Stride the evidence indicates a number of glaring disparities when compared to the behavioural consistencies relating to the deaths of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. It may well be that Stride was a Ripper victim, but we simply cannot arrive at such a conclusion based upon the available evidence.

We cant, but the police definitely thought so....

Pat

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Pat

I think the flower could have been brought for her.

I strongly suspect you're right...A corsage (how else to describe a rose over maidenhair fern) doesn't somehow seem the sort of thing a woman would've bought for herself...

Even now in some London pubs hawkers sell flowers (usually a rose).
Boyfriends eager to impress are usually their customers.

I didn't know that...but I'd heard of it as a custom back in the late 60's/early 70's when I first started (illicitly) visiting pubs in Brighton where I grew up...

Dont men give their dates a corsage sometimes in the States? Or am I showing my age? I was presented with one in 1972.

Couldn't say regarding the States, though an ex-US girlfriend I had once seemed to expect it...If the last one you were presented with was 1972, then dare I suggest George is slipping a bit (heh heh!)

All the best

Dave

[Paddy]

Hi Dve

Hi Dave,

I think along these lines too but one thing is different with Liz. The Jack we know appeared to be a blitz killer not an arguer? It seems to make it more personal.

Pat...................................

[Paddy]

The chap that gave me the corsage stole my mums engagement ring that night, never saw him again !
George is really not a flowers person Dave.


Pat.................