Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

nobody expects . . .

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I thought we should be trying to fill in the blanks, not question their conclusions at every opportunity."

Why can't we do both? Questions are my life.

"but we have a habit of questioning every aspect of the investigation, which is not the same."

Indeed. But it is a good habit, in my opinion.

Did you not expect the Spanish Inquisition? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

If

Hello Jon.

"I can see your conclusions lend themselves towards that answer but unless we start inventing other assailants everything points to BS Man as the murderer."

Given, of course, he existed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

surprise attack

Hello Edward.

"I don't know why you think the presence of the cachous is not consistent with a surprise attack."

At least we agree on that.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

"The world's a stage . . ."

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Sorry, didn't even realise that there was a "stage"."

Yes. It's the stage at which one asks, "Why on earth would IS tell a fib? To what purpose?" It's numbered, 1.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Mother of invention.

Hello Edward.

"As I said Swanson and the Home Office annotator have no problem 'inventing' another assailant."

Swanson says:

"I respectfully submit it is not clearly proved that the man that Schwartz saw is the murderer."

Not sure that such a tiny window of possibility amounts to inventing anything?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pressure

Hello Ben.

"Because blind instinct would prompt her to release them as she fell."

NOT if there was a sudden feeling of pressure to the throat.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

I'm not dealing in absolutes. I'm citing the evidence, which in this instance is unequivocal. Nothing about the Stride murder accords with the Ripper's normal crime scene behaviour.

Partial severing of the left carotid artery, as opposed to complete severing. Does that indicate different behaviour or simply a slight difference in the resulting wound?

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Stewart

'...her hair is very dark, with a tendency to curl and her complexion is also dark. Her features are sharp and somewhat pinched, as though she had endured considerable privations recently - an impression confirmed by the entire absence of the kind of ornaments commonly affected by women of her station. She wore a rusty black dress of a cheap kind of sateen [sic], with a velveteen bodice, over which was a black diagonal worsted jacket, with fur trimming; her bonnet, which had fallen from her head when she was found in the yard, was of black crape, and inside, apparently with the object of making the article fit closer to the head, was folded a copy of the Star newspaper. In her right hand were tightly clasped some grapes [sic], and in her left she held a number of sweetmeats. Both the jacket and the bodice were open towards the top, but in other respects the clothes were not disarranged. The linen was clean, and in tolerably good repair, but some articles were missing...'

Thank you for that...Daily News I assume...I had a feeling there was a description somewhere but couldn't find it, it was getting late and I was getting tired...

I've also since found Inspector Reid's testimony where he describes her as wearing "an old black skirt, and an old black jacket trimmed with fur. Fastened on the right side was a small bunch of flowers, consisting of maidenhair fern and a red rose. She had two light serge petticoats, white stoickings, white chemise with insertion in front, side-spring boots, and a black crape bonnet"

All the best

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Colin

Partial severing of the left carotid artery, as opposed to complete severing. Does that indicate different behaviour or simply a slight difference in the resulting wound?

It could simply indicate a more hasty cut than usual, (no time for the xecond cut?), perhaps owing to his being disturbed, either by Schwartz/Pipeman or by an approaching Diemschutz. I don't think it need, necessarily, indicate anything more than that...

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin



It could simply indicate a more hasty cut than usual, (no time for the xecond cut?), perhaps owing to his being disturbed, either by Schwartz/Pipeman or by an approaching Diemschutz. I don't think it need, necessarily, indicate anything more than that...

All the best

Dave

My thoughts exactly, Dave.

[C. F. Leon]

Meshing Schwartz's testimony with the Standard Theory, I come up with a reasonable scenario: IS sees an altercation between BS Man & Stride. However he actually sees her being killed but does not realize this. He is spooked by the cry "Lipsky!" (which may be BSM's attempt to frame Schwartz), whether he knows what it means or not, and takes off. The "Lipsky" cry may or may not attract the attention of some others nearby and they either chase Pipeman or IS or see Pipeman apparently chase IS. BSM probably uses this confusion to get away either as part of the chase or not. Stride is left dead or dying and Dimshitz finds her body a few minutes later.

Now, this is not the immediate interpretation, but it covers BOTH Schwartz's story AND the Interruption Theory. It's a pretty obvious idea, so why didn't the cops jump on it and focus on BSM? There's at least two problems with this theory: Schwartz indicates that the incident occured in the street OUTSIDE the gate & the timing issue. Either may be a (language or transcription) error, and ALL of the canonical murders (and Coles & Tabram) have timing problems. It also would pretty much establish IS as the witness at the Seaside Home, since he actually sees the murder (this detail is not publicized and probably never even told to him).

A related idea: Pipeman was Stride's 'date' at the time (whether a John or not is irrelevant, unless he knew her previously) and tucked into the doorway to relieve himself with LS waiting a distreet distance away. He finishes his 'business' and lights the pipe. BSM seeing Liz alone, accosts and attacks her when she refuses his advance. Pipeman because of his angle (and perhaps lighting) sees more of the attack than Schwartz does, realizes what has actually happened and takes off. This explains why he never came forward.

[C. F. Leon]

[Lechmere]

C.F.
I think the police did think the scenario you outlined was a possibility, as indeed it is. However I also think that they could not say for certain that this was what happened as there were doubts over whether the BS man attack was the fatal one. It was impossible to know - then and now.

[lynn cates]

If at first you don't succeed . . .

Hello Dave.

"perhaps owing to his being disturbed, either by Schwartz/Pipeman or by an approaching Diemschutz."

If he were disturbed, why cut at all? Why not walk away and try again later?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

outside

Hello CFL.

"Schwartz indicates that the incident occurred in the street OUTSIDE the gate"

Precisely.

"tucked into the doorway to relieve himself"

Well, given there were privies in Dutfield's, why walk all the way down to the Nelson to wee wee on their door step?

Cheers.
LC