Where is Liz Stride?

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"No-one confirmed Cadosche leaving for work when he did, no-one saw Mrs Long witness who she claims to have seen. Not everyone accepts the loiterer as Hutchinson, so he could be another one who saw something but no-one saw him. Then there's Cox, the police could not confirm her story, and no-one saw her either."

Quite. But I wonder if any of these stories were as "convenient" for the narrator as Schwartz's was for the club?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Yes but your point assumes the Club 'needed' a cover story, I don't see why they would. A murder in the communal yard is not the same as if a murder took place inside the club.

I just take the whole premise as flawed.

[lynn cates]

thought they did

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Yes but your point assumes the Club 'needed' a cover story, I don't see why they would."

Not necessarily. It shows they THOUGHT they needed such.

"A murder in the communal yard is not the same as if a murder took place inside the club."

But the coppers went over them with a fine toothed comb. Clearly, they were under suspicion.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.

But the coppers went over them with a fine toothed comb. Clearly, they were under suspicion.

But that is normal procedure, the police left them alone after everyone had accounted for themselves. This still does not justify someone creating a false incident on the spur of the moment.
If Diemshitz was not concerned, and Eagle, Lave, a handful of members who thought nothing of talking to the press about it on the Sunday, who is supposed to have been concerned?

[lynn cates]

background

Hello Jon. thanks.

But surely these lads who were used to Russian anti-semitism and pogroms would be feeling the heat--real or imagined?

Cheers.
LC

[DRoy]

I wonder what Schwartz did after running away from pipeman. As has been pointed out, he ran past his home. Did he just walk back and go home? Would he have heard the news of the murder that night (early morning)? Did he assume when he read the morning papers that the person he saw being assulted was the person that was eventually murdered and if so why & how?

The problem I have with the theory that Schwartz lied to protect the club is that the story would have had to be concocted quickly and the witness (Schwartz) would have to come across as believable and able to answer any question that would be thrown at him. Such an important witness would have been questioned quite extensively. He'd have to be a brave person walking into a police station with a false story and be able to either be schooled or confident in the questions that would have been asked or he'd have to be a fast thinker. Reminds me of The Commode Story from Reservoir Dogs.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

lost in translation

Hello Roy.

"He'd have to be a brave person walking into a police station with a false story and be able to either be schooled or confident in the questions that would have been asked or he'd have to be a fast thinker."

Or had an imaginative translator who could transform Aunt Becky's knish recipe into an assault, replete with a racist Gentile bully?

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Quite. But I wonder if any of these stories were as "convenient" for the narrator as Schwartz's was for the club?

Cheers.
LC

Convenient for Schwartz himself too perhaps - the only man we know (from his own account) to have run away from the scene of one of the Whitechapel Murders, and at around the time that the murder took place.

[Bridewell]

But the coppers went over them with a fine toothed comb. Clearly, they were under suspicion.

So the cover story - assuming there was one - was totally ineffective? I don't see any evidence of a cover-up by members of the IWMEC and, as it was ineffective, I don't see the point of any such cover-up either. I would counter that, if (big if) Schwartz was lying, he was far more likely to have been doing so on his own account rather than for someone else. His story provides him with an innocent explanation (had anyone seen and recognised him) for running away from Dutfields Yard. - or he could just have been the only witness to something which actually happened, deeply unfashionable though that view now seems to be.

[lynn cates]

more B S please

Hello Colin. Thanks.

"So the cover story - assuming there was one - was totally ineffective?"

Umm, the club was searched that very night. So also the members. IS was later.

"he could just have been the only witness to something which actually happened, deeply unfashionable though that view now seems to be."

Not with me. BS simplifies my life.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Not with me. BS simplifies my life.

Cheers.
LC

Ah, but only if he carried a knife.
It is conjecture which places one in his hand, not a witness.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

So true!

Ah, but only if he carried a knife.
It is conjecture which places one in his hand, not a witness.

But it isn't a huge gap to bridge. It all hinges on Schwartz.

[DRoy]

Or had an imaginative translator who could transform Aunt Becky's knish recipe into an assault, replete with a racist Gentile bully?

Lynn, i've used the same scenario as a possibility but when you think about it, it maybe is more difficult to accept that scenario. Possible of course but unlikely.

Cheers
DRoy

[DRoy]

Bridewell,

I agreed with most of your message except for the last part. You're always sound with your arguments but believing in Schwartz is one i'm a little surprised with. Yes, he could be telling the truth but does it make sense to accept the summary of his statement as completely legit? I don't think so.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Ah, but only if he carried a knife.
It is conjecture which places one in his hand, not a witness."

Absolutely. But a man who, if Schwartz is telling the truth, was being violent with a woman.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

racial slur

Hello Roy. Thanks.

"Lynn, I've used the same scenario as a possibility but when you think about it, it maybe is more difficult to accept that scenario. Possible of course but unlikely."

Why unlikely?

Frankly, were it not for the racial slur, I'd find Schwartz's story MUCH believable.

Cheers.
LC