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Hello all,
There are 4 Inquest witnesses that made statements about what and whom they saw from various times starting at 12:30am, until 1am......There is 1 at 12:30am,.. 1 at 12:35am,... 2 at 12:40am, and a single witness, from approximately 12:50 until 1am. It is therefore a matter of record what transpired on the streets in front of the club... in 5 minute intervals from 12:30 until 12:40, and a 10 minute interval, from 12:50 until 1am.
-Joseph Lave, witness as to the state of the street and yard at 12:30 and 12:40am
Lave, a cottager in the passageway, stated he went out for air at the entrance to the passageway from "half past 12 until about 12:40..."So far as I could see I was out in the street about half an hour, and while I was out nobody came into the yard, nor did I see anybody moving about there in a way to excite my suspicions. "
-PC William Smith, witness to state of street near gates at 12:35am
PC Smith identified the following couple..."He described the man as being about 28 years of age, 5ft 7in tall, wearing a dark overcoat and trousers. He also wore a hard felt deerstalker hat and was described as 'respectable' looking. The man was also holding a newspaper parcel, about 18in in length and 6 or 8in wide. He also noticed that the woman had a flower in her jacket." It is possible that this witness saw Liz Stride last before her murder.
-Morris Eagle, club speaker and witness who claimed to enter passageway at 12:40am to enter club via the side door
Mr Eagle stated that he had returned to the club around 12:40 and finding the front door locked, he went round to the gates to enter through the kitchen door. He said he saw no-one near the gates, in the passage or on the street at that time.
-Fanny Mortimer, neighbor witness who stood a few doors down at her door from 12:50 until 1am looking at the street.
Ms Mortimer had many things to say about that half hour;
"I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half-past twelve and one o'clock this (Sunday) morning, and did not notice anything unusual. I had just gone indoors, and was preparing to go to bed, when I heard a commotion outside, and immediately ran out, thinking that there was another row at the Socialists' Club close by. I went to see what was the matter, and was informed that another dreadful murder had been committed in the yard adjoining the club-house, and on going inside I saw the body of a woman lying huddled up just inside the yard with her throat cut from ear to ear."
....."I was told that the manager or steward of the club had discovered the woman on his return home in his pony cart. He drove through the gates, and my opinion is that he interrupted the murderer, who must have made his escape immediately under cover of the cart. If a man had come out of the yard before one o'clock I must have seen him. It was almost incredible to me that the thing could have been done without the steward's wife hearing a noise, for she was sitting in the kitchen, from which a window opens four yards from the spot where the woman was found. The body was lying slightly on one side, with the legs a little drawn up as if in pain, the clothes being slightly disarranged, so that the legs were partly visible."
......."A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound."
It would seem that if the above witnesses can be counted on having reported what they had seen accurately that we have 3 fixed points in time...at 12:30, 12:35, 12:40 and the 10 minute interval from 12:50 until 1am....where we are told the status of the street and in front of the gates.
Only 1 sighting has what appears to be our Liz Stride in it...PC Smiths, at 12:35am.
So...
1) Where is Liz at 12:30?
2) Where is Liz at 12:40?
3) Where is Liz at 12:50?
I believe its also important that Fanny Mortimers statement about the young couple includes her speaking with them after the fact. This young couple is almost certainly the couple Brown saw at 12:45am...since we know they were in the immediate area, and since Mr Brown did not see a flower or maidenfern on the breast of the young woman.
If Liz is somewhere else at 12:30, then suddenly out meeting someone on the street at 12:35, it follows that she was close by but out of sight at 12:30...even to someone standing in the passageway at 12:30am, (Lave). Yet, she is not to be seen 5 minutes later at 12:40, by someone walking the width of the club on the street, (Eagle) and by someone standing by the gates in the passage, (Lave).
We do have an unconfirmed story about someone seeing her at 12:45 in front of the gates, but at this point it is only a story and not evidence that has been entered at any Inquest or hearing. That means that its at least possible that Liz Stride was off the street from 12:40 until 1am, yet Fanny stated that no-one entered or left that passageway while she stood there. Other than seeing Leon Goldstein pass by the gates at approx 12:56, she saw only the young couple.
So...where does Liz Stride go that places her out of sight to Lave, Eagle and Mortimer,.... and if she is out of sight in other than the passageway, how does she get into the passageway after 12:50 from the street without Fanny seeing her?
If she isnt in the passage or the yard or the club....where is she when those witnesses see no-one?
Best regards
There are 4 Inquest witnesses that made statements about what and whom they saw from various times starting at 12:30am, until 1am......There is 1 at 12:30am,.. 1 at 12:35am,... 2 at 12:40am, and a single witness, from approximately 12:50 until 1am. It is therefore a matter of record what transpired on the streets in front of the club... in 5 minute intervals from 12:30 until 12:40, and a 10 minute interval, from 12:50 until 1am.
-Joseph Lave, witness as to the state of the street and yard at 12:30 and 12:40am
Lave, a cottager in the passageway, stated he went out for air at the entrance to the passageway from "half past 12 until about 12:40..."So far as I could see I was out in the street about half an hour, and while I was out nobody came into the yard, nor did I see anybody moving about there in a way to excite my suspicions. "
-PC William Smith, witness to state of street near gates at 12:35am
PC Smith identified the following couple..."He described the man as being about 28 years of age, 5ft 7in tall, wearing a dark overcoat and trousers. He also wore a hard felt deerstalker hat and was described as 'respectable' looking. The man was also holding a newspaper parcel, about 18in in length and 6 or 8in wide. He also noticed that the woman had a flower in her jacket." It is possible that this witness saw Liz Stride last before her murder.
-Morris Eagle, club speaker and witness who claimed to enter passageway at 12:40am to enter club via the side door
Mr Eagle stated that he had returned to the club around 12:40 and finding the front door locked, he went round to the gates to enter through the kitchen door. He said he saw no-one near the gates, in the passage or on the street at that time.
-Fanny Mortimer, neighbor witness who stood a few doors down at her door from 12:50 until 1am looking at the street.
Ms Mortimer had many things to say about that half hour;
"I was standing at the door of my house nearly the whole time between half-past twelve and one o'clock this (Sunday) morning, and did not notice anything unusual. I had just gone indoors, and was preparing to go to bed, when I heard a commotion outside, and immediately ran out, thinking that there was another row at the Socialists' Club close by. I went to see what was the matter, and was informed that another dreadful murder had been committed in the yard adjoining the club-house, and on going inside I saw the body of a woman lying huddled up just inside the yard with her throat cut from ear to ear."
....."I was told that the manager or steward of the club had discovered the woman on his return home in his pony cart. He drove through the gates, and my opinion is that he interrupted the murderer, who must have made his escape immediately under cover of the cart. If a man had come out of the yard before one o'clock I must have seen him. It was almost incredible to me that the thing could have been done without the steward's wife hearing a noise, for she was sitting in the kitchen, from which a window opens four yards from the spot where the woman was found. The body was lying slightly on one side, with the legs a little drawn up as if in pain, the clothes being slightly disarranged, so that the legs were partly visible."
......."A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound."
It would seem that if the above witnesses can be counted on having reported what they had seen accurately that we have 3 fixed points in time...at 12:30, 12:35, 12:40 and the 10 minute interval from 12:50 until 1am....where we are told the status of the street and in front of the gates.
Only 1 sighting has what appears to be our Liz Stride in it...PC Smiths, at 12:35am.
So...
1) Where is Liz at 12:30?
2) Where is Liz at 12:40?
3) Where is Liz at 12:50?
I believe its also important that Fanny Mortimers statement about the young couple includes her speaking with them after the fact. This young couple is almost certainly the couple Brown saw at 12:45am...since we know they were in the immediate area, and since Mr Brown did not see a flower or maidenfern on the breast of the young woman.
If Liz is somewhere else at 12:30, then suddenly out meeting someone on the street at 12:35, it follows that she was close by but out of sight at 12:30...even to someone standing in the passageway at 12:30am, (Lave). Yet, she is not to be seen 5 minutes later at 12:40, by someone walking the width of the club on the street, (Eagle) and by someone standing by the gates in the passage, (Lave).
We do have an unconfirmed story about someone seeing her at 12:45 in front of the gates, but at this point it is only a story and not evidence that has been entered at any Inquest or hearing. That means that its at least possible that Liz Stride was off the street from 12:40 until 1am, yet Fanny stated that no-one entered or left that passageway while she stood there. Other than seeing Leon Goldstein pass by the gates at approx 12:56, she saw only the young couple.
So...where does Liz Stride go that places her out of sight to Lave, Eagle and Mortimer,.... and if she is out of sight in other than the passageway, how does she get into the passageway after 12:50 from the street without Fanny seeing her?
If she isnt in the passage or the yard or the club....where is she when those witnesses see no-one?
Best regards
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