Was Stride Really a JtR Victim?

[The Good Michael]

A "statement" (meaning something formal and official) is surely a sub-sort of testimony (which can also have technical meanings - i.e. testimony in a court of law) but which can be used loosely to mean bearing witness in any way - written or oral.

The word "statement" can also be used loosely and often is.

It is up to the person using the word to ensure that his meaning (and definition) is clear.

True of course, and I was clear in my initial post. People often want to hang on certain words in order to support some theory or non-theory, or because they are just being a pain. To the point, Schwartz' testimony to the authorities which most probably was given as evidence to the coroner in some form, doesn't prove or disprove anything about Stride's death, but it is logical enough that it shouldn't be dismissed as a false statement. If the exact time of the murder could be pinpointed, we might have something more. Alas, we don't.

Mike

Mike

[curious4]

Liz Stride

I am not entirely convinced she was. I'd say I am around 75% of her being a victim of the whitechapel killer.

On a side note liz stride was my distant cousin. surprisingly enough I only found that out a few years ago. I had always had a fascination with the JTR killings for a large majority of my life.

Regards,
Dan

Hello Dan,

Fascinating to be able to speak to a relative of Liz. How are you connected? Strangely enough I have recently been wishing it was possible to speak to a relative. Following the doctor's remark that there was an unusual flow of blood, I put forward the idea that Liz could possibly have suffered from haemophilia type C, which means that the sufferer can be female and doesn't have problems with cuts and so on, only with operations, when they bleed much longer than normal. Do you happen to know if anyone in your family has had problems during surgery or has been diagnosed with this?

Of course even so this wouldn't prove Liz had it, but it would affect estimating the time of death, as her blood would stay liquid longer.

It must feel weird to have people discussing your relative's death so clinically, but I think that, on the whole, people are sympathetic and respectful.

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. I'd go for a 95% chance, myself.

[lynn cates]

bottom line

Hello Errata. Thanks.

"He said she screamed, but not loudly, which doesn't make sense since a scream is by definition loud."

Right. And this is my bottom line.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Ah, now I see what you mean--a bit of equivocation. "Squeal" meaning, in this case, "to inform."

So Liz informed on her assailant?

No, that`s not what I meant.

"Squealed" - meaning, in this case, "to make a noise that drew attention."

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

"I suppose it could have been someone connected to the Star."

Good thinking.

Not really. As I went on to explain, highly unlikely.

If the Star concocted the story why send it to the Central News Agency and not their own offices?
Why is it not mentioned in the Star on the 2nd Oct, the day after it was received at the CNA?
When do the Star eventually write about Saucy Jack ?

Highly unlikely that Saucy Jack was written by a pressman.

"But they didn't track Schwartz down until early evening on Sunday at best."

For the interview? Agreed. But when would "The Star" first have become aware of the story?

When Schwartz walked out of Leman Police station early on Sunday evening after giving his statement to the police.
I guess the Star had a reporter hanging around outside Leman St Police station following developments.

[curious4]

Screamed

Or "cried out".

C4

[Jon Guy]

He wouldn't, but who could contradict him if he made the claim?

So it was pure chance?

[Jon Guy]

He wouldn't, but who could contradict him if he made the claim?

Actually, Schwartz could.

[The Good Michael]

No offense intended, but when I think of someone crying out or screaming, but not loudly, I think of...maybe Gene Wilder in a deadpan voice saying, No. Stop Don't." like from Willy Wonka.

Mike

[caz]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I think it means three screams that were not very loud."

Oxymoron.

Not sure how we get from an oxymoron to a squeal?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

If I may interrupt here, wasn't it you who suggested Schwartz could have been giving some recipe or other for all we know, since we rely solely on his interpreter for what the witness was actually claiming?

Yet you can't get from three not very loud screams to a bit of squealing?

Where there's no will there's no way, right?

Love,

Caz
X

[The Good Michael]

Yet you can't get from three not very loud screams to a bit of squealing?

Where there's no will there's no way, right?

A little shocked you brought Lynn's boudoir antics into the equation. I mean the book isn't even out yet.

Mike

[Phil H]

To the point, Schwartz' testimony to the authorities which most probably was given as evidence to the coroner in some form,

Michael - can I please ask the basis on which you make that statement?

Phil

[caz]

To answer the question posed in the thread's title, I would say that JtR must at the very least be considered the prime suspect in the complete absence of any other plausible suspect. Kidney and Stride's other associates were looked into and nothing suspicious was found. I don't buy that a complete stranger, other than JtR, who happened to be carrying a lethal blade on him, would have risked the gallows by using it on Stride to swift, efficient effect for no better reason than she 'upset' him somehow.

JtR doesn't need a reason. He cuts strangers' throats (and more when he gets the chance) just for jolly.

Love,

Caz
X

[The Good Michael]

To the point, Schwartz' testimony to the authorities which most probably was given as evidence to the coroner in some form,

Michael - can I please ask the basis on which you make that statement?

Phil,

It is an educated guess on my part. I believe his statement was credible and important, so with that in mind, I don't believe it was ignored by the coroner's inquest. I have no proof, but as in all things JTR, there is no definitive word against this either. Logically, to me at least, it makes sense that the coroner would have read the statement or been given it in brief.

Mike

[Phil H]

I must admit Michael that you are braver than I.

I would certainly not dare to make such an assertion on the grounds that you do. Having the testimony presented to the Coroner (when there is no supporting evidence that happened) would give what Schwartz said a wholly different standing. I think that would be misleading and unsustainable.

Sorry to disagree.

Caz

To answer the question posed in the thread's title, I would say that JtR must at the very least be considered the prime suspect in the complete absence of any other plausible suspect.

That is a perfectly valid point of view, but does rather close one to other possibilities.

I find the clinging to conventional wisdoms quite touching - though I once did it myself.

There are other possibilities for Stride, than being a JtR victim and (for myself) I think it helpful to ponder those somewhat - while never ruling out the usual explanations, of course.

But each to their own.

Phil