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  • Throat Cuts as opposed to stabbing.

    When looking at the death of Liz Stride, much can be made for it not being being perpetrated by the same killer of Polly and Annie, based on lack of mutilations, and any obvious attempt to mutilate, as the scene was found on the night. Likewise, Eddowes was killed later that night, with much more apparent connection to Polly and Annie.

    The similarity with Strides death, from a physical point, is the throat cutting. Even this is disputed, on account of it not being as severe, although still severe enough to kill rapidly.

    So can throat cutting itself be seen as a connection? How common was this means of killing as opposed to other methods of killing by knife. Is an inexperienced killer, a passion killer, a 'heat of the moment' killer more likely to stab? Even in the neck, is a stab an easier method, a more reflex attack?

    Would we be more willing to accept non ripper ideas if Liz was stabbed? Does the throat slashing cause her inclusion, when not much else does? Does the slashing of the throat alone suggest one who has killed before?
    Thems the Vagaries.....

  • #2
    Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post

    Would we be more willing to accept non ripper ideas if Liz was stabbed? Does the throat slashing cause her inclusion, when not much else does? Does the slashing of the throat alone suggest one who has killed before?
    Use of the carotid arteries to immobilize/kill other Canonicals is part of his MO.

    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
      When looking at the death of Liz Stride, much can be made for it not being being perpetrated by the same killer of Polly and Annie, based on lack of mutilations, and any obvious attempt to mutilate, as the scene was found on the night. Likewise, Eddowes was killed later that night, with much more apparent connection to Polly and Annie.

      The similarity with Strides death, from a physical point, is the throat cutting. Even this is disputed, on account of it not being as severe, although still severe enough to kill rapidly.

      So can throat cutting itself be seen as a connection? How common was this means of killing as opposed to other methods of killing by knife. Is an inexperienced killer, a passion killer, a 'heat of the moment' killer more likely to stab? Even in the neck, is a stab an easier method, a more reflex attack?

      Would we be more willing to accept non ripper ideas if Liz was stabbed? Does the throat slashing cause her inclusion, when not much else does? Does the slashing of the throat alone suggest one who has killed before?
      First question....undoubtably, but not for all. This is one area where people choose to believe despite any evidence to support them,...(like in Voting Mail-In Fraud for example)... they cannot be compelled to believed otherwise. Yes, to the second question. Thats a presumption too. No, to the third. Sliding a knife across a throat doesnt necessarily suggest experience doing that sort of thing, however, extracting a uterus intact while making only the most necessary of cuts to do so, does suggest experience.
      Last edited by Michael W Richards; 11-13-2020, 06:08 PM.
      Michael Richards

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DJA View Post

        Use of the carotid arteries to immobilize/kill other Canonicals is part of his MO.
        100% this
        "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
        - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Al Bundy's Eyes View Post
          Would we be more willing to accept non ripper ideas if Liz was stabbed? Does the throat slashing cause her inclusion, when not much else does? Does the slashing of the throat alone suggest one who has killed before?
          Is it not also that the throat cutting was from left to right, suggesting a left-handed attacker, as with other ripper victims.



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          • #6
            Originally posted by etenguy View Post

            Is it not also that the throat cutting was from left to right, suggesting a left-handed attacker, as with other ripper victims.


            That might depend on whether her killer stood in front, or behind her.
            Regards, Jon S.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

              First question....undoubtably, but not for all. This is one area where people choose to believe despite any evidence to support them,...(like in Voting Mail-In Fraud for example)... they cannot be compelled to believed otherwise. Yes, to the second question. Thats a presumption too. No, to the third. Sliding a knife across a throat doesnt necessarily suggest experience doing that sort of thing, however, extracting a uterus intact while making only the most necessary of cuts to do so, does suggest experience.
              I agree but how does the written correspondence which talks specifically about a double event fit into all of this?


              The reference to a double event considerably strengthens the case for Stride having been a ripper victim.

              Although i am on the fence with Stride to a certain extent.


              If Stride was a ripper victim, the only viable reason why she never received mutilations similar to the others, would only have been because he was disturbed and nearly caught in the act.
              This may also go some way to explaining why he felt compelled to travel west and find another victim the same night to quell his thirst for violence and again why Kelly was killed indoors instead.

              If Stride wasn't a ripper victim then it does change the entire course of events for that particular night and also then questions the authenticity of any written correspondence relating to a double event.

              It's hard to say which is true



              TRD

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              • #8
                I've never included the letters in any theorizing, I don't think they came from the killer.
                The fact Eddowes ear lobe had been sliced through appears purely coincidence, it didn't look intentional. And not the result of a failed attempt to cut the whole ear off.
                If he had time to slice the eyelids then he had time to slice both ears, but no attempt was made to do that.

                Regards, Jon S.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                  I've never included the letters in any theorizing, I don't think they came from the killer.
                  The fact Eddowes ear lobe had been sliced through appears purely coincidence, it didn't look intentional. And not the result of a failed attempt to cut the whole ear off.
                  If he had time to slice the eyelids then he had time to slice both ears, but no attempt was made to do that.
                  I don't believe for one minute that the facial wounds to Eddowes were deliberate. I believe they were caused by the victim struggling in trying to avoid her throat being cut from behind with a long sharp bladed knife.

                  www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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                  • #10
                    Prolly ran out of time.

                    Doubt the eyelids were done in the dark. Possibly done indoors after strangulation.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                    • #11
                      I agree but how does the written correspondence which talks specifically about a double event fit into all of this?

                      Sugden does a very thorough job of addressing this issue in his book "The Complete History of Jack the Ripper."

                      c.d.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                        I've never included the letters in any theorizing, I don't think they came from the killer.
                        Mr Crawford: On the piece of apron brought in by Dr. Phillips were there smears of blood as if someone had wiped blood-stained hands upon it?
                        Dr Brown: Yes. There were also some other stains.

                        Did someone wipe blood-stained hands on front and back of the saucy jacky postcard?

                        The fact Eddowes ear lobe had been sliced through appears purely coincidence, it didn't look intentional. And not the result of a failed attempt to cut the whole ear off.
                        If he had time to slice the eyelids then he had time to slice both ears, but no attempt was made to do that.
                        That was a reference to 'number one', not 'number two'.
                        Last edited by NotBlamedForNothing; 11-16-2020, 05:32 AM.
                        Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                          I've never included the letters in any theorizing, I don't think they came from the killer.
                          The fact Eddowes ear lobe had been sliced through appears purely coincidence, it didn't look intentional. And not the result of a failed attempt to cut the whole ear off.
                          If he had time to slice the eyelids then he had time to slice both ears, but no attempt was made to do that.
                          I think the one missive that has potential Wick is From Hell, meaning that it actually came from someone who killed a woman. I believe the facial markss are to serve as a warning to others, that this woman was a snitch, and the only reason I can think they might consider her that is if she was allied with them in some way. The Irish community might be one group who would feel betrayed if its one of theirs that she intended to turn in.
                          Michael Richards

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                            First question....undoubtably, but not for all. This is one area where people choose to believe despite any evidence to support them,...(like in Voting Mail-In Fraud for example)... they cannot be compelled to believed otherwise. Yes, to the second question. Thats a presumption too. No, to the third. Sliding a knife across a throat doesnt necessarily suggest experience doing that sort of thing, however, extracting a uterus intact while making only the most necessary of cuts to do so, does suggest experience.
                            Could you stop making this kind of personally insulting and derogatory comparison with those of us who simply don't rule out a potential connection with other murders, not least because of the efficient way Stride's throat was cut, but also due to other factors, such as the unsolved murder statistics for the whole of England, and the known 'double event' phenomenon, which even the author of the Saucy Jacky postcard was able to recognise and allow for?

                            I wonder how you'd react if a poster compared Stride 'exclusionists' with anti-vaxxers?

                            Just stop it, there's a good chap.
                            "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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                            • #15
                              Yes Michael, and can't you at least save some of your ire for the Escalationists?
                              Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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