How Would Jack the Ripper Have Reacted?

[Damaso Marte]

How Stride and Eddowes ended up on the ground is a question worth looking into. The true connoisseur's mystery about the double event.

[lynn cates]

anaemia

Hello Velma. Well, if I recall properly, anaemia causes whiteness around the nail beds.

Cheers.
LC

[miakaal4]

Hi Curious,
Regarding your question, I think Jack would have just assumed Stride had succumbed to whatever force he was using to attack. His mind always on the knifework, I doubt her passing out/dying would cause him any hesitation.

[curious]

Hi all,

I've said for years that something as simple as Stride fainting makes perfect sense. But there would never be a way to prove it. I would have to say that her dying of a heart attack is far less likely, as that would be more medically obvious. And yes, it's very possible to choke someone to unconsciousness without leaving bruises on their neck. It would depend on the health, muscle mass, strength, and sobriety of the victim.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi, Tom,
Thanks, I was hoping you would chime in, knowing of your study on this case.

If she had fainted, say, then there would have been no need for choking. I can't help but wonder if perhaps that was the reason for the more shallow cut, the one cut, the lack of mutilation -- her reaction deprived the killer of something. . .

all sheer conjecture, of course, just trying the scenario on for a fit.

Any idea why Dr. Phillips could consider the lungs unusually pale. Wasn't there even a remark that someone had seen her earlier, then looked at the body and remarked that the face was more pale?

Again, appreciate your input.

curious

[curious]

How Stride and Eddowes ended up on the ground is a question worth looking into. The true connoisseur's mystery about the double event.

Hi, Damaso Marte,

Thanks,

Stride fainting in her killer's arms and slumping downward, to be supported by him and laid gently down would fit.

I would enjoy hearing your thoughts on how they got to the ground.

curious

[lynn cates]

relax

Hello Velma. If Liz had fainted, her grip would have relaxed and her cachous would have spilled.

On the other hand, pressure to the throat causes clenching.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. Well, if I recall properly, anaemia causes whiteness around the nail beds.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,
Just did a quick check at http://www.emedicinehealth.com/anemi...nemia_symptoms

Symptoms of anemia may include the following:

fatigue;
decreased energy;
weakness;
shortness of breath;
lightheadedness;
palpitations (feeling of the heart racing or beating irregularly); and
looking pale.

Symptoms of severe anemia may include:

chest pain, angina, or heart attack;
dizziness;
fainting or passing out; and
rapid heart rate.

My mother was anemic for much of her younger life and when we were kids, she would frequently faint.

I'm not sure the anemia was the cause, of course, that's just a memory I have.

Oh, and severe blood loss is a cause of anemia, so the sources say.

velma

[lynn cates]

congruent

Hello Anaemia. Thanks. Yes, those symptoms check out.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Hello Velma. If Liz had fainted, her grip would have relaxed and her cachous would have spilled.

On the other hand, pressure to the throat causes clenching.

Cheers.
LC

That's true, Lynn,
Those darn cachous again!

Wonder what a heart attack would cause?

Would the doctors at the time have known what a heart attack looked like?

Surely they would have known something happened? or would they?

[Tecs]

Jack starts to strangle.

Liz passes out.

She goes limp and begins to fall to the floor (unlike the other victims who would have unwittingly helped Jack by remaining standing to fight back.)

Jack lays her down but hears Diemschutz approaching.

Panicking as he realises that if Liz comes round he is surely identified he cuts her throat as quickly and hastily as possible which explains the slightly different cut from the other victims.

Jack makes his escape quickly, off to find another victim.


That would all fit wouldn't it?

Regards,

[Tecs]

Adding to my post above, if Jack needed to finish Liz off quickly it would have been quicker to stab her two or three times.

But that would run the risk of being covered in blood.

The way Jack cut his victims throats, away from him so that no blood sprayed on to him suggests either someone with knowledge of some sort or someone cool and calm enough to know what to do in the circumstances.

Does that tell us anything more about him?

Assuming the above post was how it happened!

regards,

[curious]

Jack starts to strangle.

Liz passes out.

She goes limp and begins to fall to the floor (unlike the other victims who would have unwittingly helped Jack by remaining standing to fight back.)

Jack lays her down but hears Diemschutz approaching.

Panicking as he realises that if Liz comes round he is surely identified he cuts her throat as quickly and hastily as possible which explains the slightly different cut from the other victims.

Jack makes his escape quickly, off to find another victim.


That would all fit wouldn't it?

Regards,

Ah, interesting. You see him continuing so she can't identify him. But it was extremely dark, could she have? Of course, why would he take a chance?

If he had grabbed her scarf from behind . . . well, I've wondered how he could have intentionally when it was so dark. Perhaps he just grabbed and got the scarf and she attempted to pull away.

But then, we have the grasp on the cachous that fainting won't explain . .
And I have a problem with the timing of Diemschutz's arrival. I'm not sure he was in time to have interrupted the murderer. But that was a busy yard with lots of opportunity for interruption.

Thanks, Tecs, this is why it's been a mystery for 124 years.

I have also wondered if the murderer tucked the cachous into her hand -- I'm not sure it makes any sense, but I have wondered if it was not a JtR job, but someone who cared for her and the little gift of cachous was perhaps an act of remorse.

see, pure imagination.

Just read a great quote: Logic takes a person from A to B. Imagination can take a person anywhere . . .

now if we could figure out why Stride's lungs were unusually pale, would we be closer to understanding?

[lynn cates]

yes

Hello Velma. Thanks.

"Would the doctors at the time have known what a heart attack looked like?"

Certainly.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

limp

Hello Tecs.

"That would all fit wouldn't it?"

Nearly. But a limp Liz cannot hold the cachous.

Cheers.
LC

[curious]

Adding to my post above, if Jack needed to finish Liz off quickly it would have been quicker to stab her two or three times.

But that would run the risk of being covered in blood.

The way Jack cut his victims throats, away from him so that no blood sprayed on to him suggests either someone with knowledge of some sort or someone cool and calm enough to know what to do in the circumstances.

Does that tell us anything more about him?

Assuming the above post was how it happened!

regards,

Hi, Tecs,
I personally think the fact that Jack cut his victims throats away from him in order to avoid getting bloody himself tells us quite a bit about him, and to me is one of the main reasons I suspect "Jack" as Liz's killer. I'm still undecided about that.

That and the quick work in a crowded location are, to me, indications of Jack.

The cachous tells us something unusual (most likely physical) happened with Liz, and 124 years later we still don't know what it was.

Cadaveric Spasm has been suggested, but I believe the entire body goes into "instant rigor"

Since the doctors were able to move her around just minutes later, Cadaveric Spasm doesn't seem to me to be likely.