Diemschutz arrival

[lynn cates]

O K

Hello Maria. Thanks. See what I can do.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

I am amazed that people want to insert an interruption into this murder...,, at least that means many still believe that a "Ripper" rips, and an interruption is just about the only way that a "Ripper" would have been involved in the death of Stride, so I guess that is a good sign overall.

As for how many men were carrying any using knives during this period, aside from the many, many men who carried them daily as a work tool or for recreation, or for defense or intimidation, some carried them to kill people with. Of the 11 knife related incidents in the Whitechapel Murders file only 5 were suggested as linked by killer by contemporary officials. Thats just the unsolved ones. There were Torsos before during and after the Fall of Terror, and there was a third throat slit on the Double Event night.

This Jack fellow shared London with others of his ilk, he didnt have it all to himself.

Cheers.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac. Thought experiment time. By chance, I was reading about the Brown murder in Westminster just today. As you must know, she died by having her throat cut about 2 hours before Liz and only 3 miles away.

Although her mentally disturbed husband readily confessed, suppose he had not.

I submit to you that we would have threads discussing the thesis that "Jack" killed Mrs. Brown, but was interrupted before mutilation began. Next, he went to Berner street and did for Liz. ANOTHER interruption. By now, he was in a frenzy and found Kate at Mitre Square. Success!

And I PROMISE you, someone would be counting the 3 miles from Westminster to Berner and demonstrating the plausibility of the 1-2 hour time frame.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

I personally wouldn't.

The evidence suggests that Jack killed prostitutes in East London and outdoors, with the exception of Kelly.

The location fits Jack, rather than a domestic.

[Bridewell]

Just dragging the whole thing back to Diemschutz and his arrival. While the timing discrepancy is a concern, might it not simply be the case that Diemschutz stumbled across a body which had already been discovered, but then abandoned by the finders going in search of help?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Just dragging the whole thing back to Diemschutz and his arrival. While the timing discrepancy is a concern, might it not simply be the case that Diemschutz stumbled across a body which had already been discovered, but then abandoned by the finders going in search of help?

Regards, Bridewell.

I thought that was a decent idea, too, but looking at the times there would have been people round the body by the time the cart fella arrived.

Undoubtedly, someone is out with their times, and as the cart fella is the one who said he looked at the clcok - then I'd say he's more likely to be right.

Doesn't mean Jack wasn't disturbed by someone coming out or going into the club, prior to the cart fella's arrival, though.

[lynn cates]

assumptions

Hello Mac. Thanks.

I agree that Polly and Annie were prostituting when killed. I'd like some evidence for the others.

It seems to me that, given one faulty assumption, more must follow. Soon, the case is unrecognisable.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

hmm

Hello Colin.

"might it not simply be the case that Diemschutz stumbled across a body which had already been discovered"

Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but . . .

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

better

Hello (again) Mac.

"Doesn't mean Jack wasn't disturbed by someone coming out or going into the club, prior to the cart fella's arrival, though."

Quite right. And I think this is MUCH more fruitful that adverting to Dimshits. Of course, I see no reason to think in terms of an interruption anyway.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

I am amazed that people want to insert an interruption into this murder

People such as Diemshitz? Abberline? Everyone else who was actually there? Do you ever stop to wonder how amazed they'd be at the stuff you've suggested on these boards?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[miakaal4]

Yeah, Tom has a point there, sometimes I think we give a little less credit to those guys who were doing the foot pounding and asking the questions. Abberline was a good copper, he knew a lot of faces in the area, but got no-where. This alone could be pointing to a killer somewhere outside Whitechapel.

[Phil H]

Yeah, Tom has a point there, sometimes I think we give a little less credit to those guys who were doing the foot pounding and asking the questions. Abberline was a good copper, he knew a lot of faces in the area, but got no-where. This alone could be pointing to a killer somewhere outside Whitechapel.

Or to the fact that the East End was teeming with misfits. Read the Ultimate Source Book to see how many people wandered around with knives, went into pubs all bloody... Is there not a mention in the surviving files somewhere that they were considering 300 individuals?

I don't think there is very much evidence that we should be looking outside Whitechapel and environs. That is where the house-to-house search was carried out; where the City cops staked-out a suspect; where Anderson and Swanson believed the culprit resided.

We can play games with the Druitts, the Maybricks (ha!) and the rest, but there is no clear connection to the area for any of them. Not a jot.

Not that the police did NOT look outside the area when given a lead - Sanders the medical student is an example; Abberline went to essex on one occasion to speak to a suspect did he not?

But to me, and it seems to those responsible in 1888, all roads led to Whitechapel.

Phil H

[miakaal4]

Hi Phil H,And I would say again that the argument is a weak one. The only real evidence, if you cancall it that, regarding the culprit living in the area is that s/he seemed to know the area well, and managed to avoid the cops.
It couldn't be someone in Bethnal Green, or the City, or someone who grew up there but now lived in Surrey and went back to work or visit? Why on earth does it have to be someone living in Whitechapel?
Again it goes back to the old school of "It must have been..."

[Tempus omnia revelat]

Yeah, Tom has a point there, sometimes I think we give a little less credit to those guys who were doing the foot pounding and asking the questions. Abberline was a good copper, he knew a lot of faces in the area, but got no-where. This alone could be pointing to a killer somewhere outside Whitechapel.

Or to the fact that the East End was teeming with misfits. Read the Ultimate Source Book to see how many people wandered around with knives, went into pubs all bloody... Is there not a mention in the surviving files somewhere that they were considering 300 individuals?

I don't think there is very much evidence that we should be looking outside Whitechapel and environs. That is where the house-to-house search was carried out; where the City cops staked-out a suspect; where Anderson and Swanson believed the culprit resided.

We can play games with the Druitts, the Maybricks (ha!) and the rest, but there is no clear connection to the area for any of them. Not a jot.

Not that the police did NOT look outside the area when given a lead - Sanders the medical student is an example; Abberline went to essex on one occasion to speak to a suspect did he not?

But to me, and it seems to those responsible in 1888, all roads led to Whitechapel.

Phil H

There is no clear connection to the area with regards Maybrick! I think you should do some more research there, Phil.


Kind regards,


Tempus

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

I agree that Polly and Annie were prostituting when killed. I'd like some evidence for the others.

What evidence do you have for Nichols solicting ? She and Mc Kenzie are the two from the files that we don`t have in the company of a man shortly before her death.

No doubt she was, she almost admitted as much to Emily Holland, but with you asking for evidence for the others: Tabram (soldiers,) Chapman (Long`s Man) Stride ( Best and Gardener/ Marshalls man/ Schwartz), Eddowes (church passage man) Kelly (Mr Blotchy- Mr A), Mylett (little and large) and Coles (Sadler/ cheesecutter man) .. just wondering ... :-)

[lynn cates]

jolly

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Being seen in company with a man is hardly proof of soliciting.

Polly? "It won't take long. See what a jolly new . . . "

Cheers.
LC