Who Died in Dutfield's Yard?

[Wickerman]

........This whole sidebar has been about whether Wess could have been the man Smith saw with Stride, and since only we have his silence on the issue, and a sighting that although not definitive still has Wess's age and general appearance along with a parcel shaped dimensionally consistent with the size of the Arbeter Fraint, along with Wess's admission that around that time he was carrying literature, its not out of the question.

The man with Stride could have been any middle-aged male in the east end, so why Wess?

Also, Wess only claimed to carry some paperwork from the club, via the side door, to the office at the back of the club. He didn't even go into the street.
How do we know this?
Because after leaving the office, he had to look towards the end of the yard to see if the gates were open.
Which means he did not enter the yard from the street, and walk through the gates. So he could not have been seen with Stride in Berner st. on the opposite side of the road.
Wess emphasized leaving the club by the street door to distinguish it from the other door he had spoken about - the side door.

Some people missed those obvious details, or prefer to ignore them.

Any involvement by Wess in these crimes is a pure fabrication of modern theorists, or one particular modern theorist who even wrote about it without checking the details.

[Michael W Richards]

You lost me completely here, Simon. Are you saying that those who (for God only knows whatever reason) were perpetuating the Jack the Ripper myth would be looking to find Stride's killer so they could shut him up before he revealed that he was not Jack?

Stay safe as well.

c.d.

It seems to me that the police were happy to have the Jack the Ripper storyline to work with, perhaps because they wanted distractions. They continually espouse theories based on a solo mad killer, all the stories about who knew what and what secrets lay hidden within this mystery were based around a single madman. The timing of the Parnell Commission may be relevant here. Or something hitherto unknown. But the facts are that the police seem content to put all their eggs in one basket very early on here, when most of us can see pretty clearly that there were arguments for some inclusions in the kill list that are questionable still. Like Liz Strides murder, strikingly and obviously un-Ripped. On the property of dissidents. Anarchists. Revolutionists.

In modern investigations the line "we are pursuing all leads" is a defining characteristic of any murder case. Are the LVP Counter Terrorism/Intelligence/Counter Espionage personelle who were assigned to investigate murders of street women pursuing all leads? Did they tell that to the press? Or from very early on was this set in stone as a lone madmans rampage? Surely less terrifying than a more sinister far reaching plot, or revealing police or government corruption, or deception. The uncontrolled actions of one sick person kind of terror vs the very controlled actions of many individuals involved in the same.

[Michael W Richards]

In the same sentence Smith acknowledges "I did not notice him much". That was not the case with Stride, he "recognized her at once." As for facial hair..Im not sure when this image was taken, but the faint hair on his upper lip could easily be missed I would think. This whole sidebar has been about whether Wess could have been the man Smith saw with Stride, and since only we have his silence on the issue, and a sighting that although not definitive still has Wess's age and general appearance along with a parcel shaped dimensionally consistent with the size of the Arbeter Fraint, along with Wess's admission that around that time he was carrying literature, its not out of the question.

[drstrange169]

Good point! Although, whiskers are still facial hair.

Not only had Wess gone, he had gone with two witnesses accompanying him.

[Wickerman]

>>Revist the statement of Smith, he doesn't even mention whether or not the man had facial hair.<<


PC Smith, "He had no whiskers".

Woolf Wess was always photographed with a moustache.

Whiskers are sideburns, they extend down from the ear.
You're thinking of a cat

Don't bother checking Google, that depends on modern beliefs. To find out what whiskers actually were in the 19th century check the press.

Here are some descriptions consistent with the times being discussed.

"height 5ft. 6in., complexion dark, no whiskers, dark moustache. Dress: Black jacket, vest, and trousers, round black felt hat. Respectable appearance. Can be identified."

"Age, about 30, height, 5ft, 3in. Complexion and hair dark, with moustache and false whiskers,..."

"about fifty-five years old, tall and rather heavy, and looks as if he painted his cheeks and dyed his hair, heavy mustache and side whiskers.."

"I think he had short whiskers coming a little below the ears and a slight moustache..."

Whiskers are long (extended) bushy sideburns, not a moustache.

Aside from that, Wolf Wess, by his own admission was long gone from Berner St. by the time PC Smith came by.

[drstrange169]

You know how wacky those Victorian inventions were!

[c.d.]

>>Revist the statement of Smith, he doesn't even mention whether or not the man had facial hair.<<


PC Smith, "He had no whiskers".

Woolf Wess was always photographed with a moustache.

Wow. Wouldn't a camera have been a lot easier?

c.d.

[drstrange169]

>>Revist the statement of Smith, he doesn't even mention whether or not the man had facial hair.<<


PC Smith, "He had no whiskers".

Woolf Wess was always photographed with a moustache.

[Simon Wood]

Hi c.d.,

Basically, yes. That's it in a nutshell.

Regards,

Simon

[c.d.]

You lost me completely here, Simon. Are you saying that those who (for God only knows whatever reason) were perpetuating the Jack the Ripper myth would be looking to find Stride's killer so they could shut him up before he revealed that he was not Jack?

Stay safe as well.

c.d.

[Simon Wood]

Hi c.d.,

The perpetrator of the domestic incident would know that he [or she] was not the character known as Jack the Ripper, did not murder Catherine Eddowes and was not the author of the letter and postcard which appeared in Monday's newspapers.

All of which makes the actual Stride perpetrator a dangerous person; someone who could potentially blow the JtR story out of the water.

If this scenario is what actually happened, the Stride perpetrator would have to be dealt with in order for the JtR story to work.

Hope you're staying safe.

Simon

[c.d.]

If Stride was the victim of a domestic incident, the perpetrator must have been mightily chuffed to learn that he [or she] had got away scot free. Not only was the murder being blamed on someone called Jack the Ripper; there was also a signed postcard in the newspapers to prove it.

Hello Simon,

This theory surfaces from time to time but I am afraid it is faulty. The police had no name attached to the person of Jack the Ripper. Hence they couldn't rule out anybody as being the murderer.

c.d.

[Simon Wood]

If Stride was the victim of a domestic incident, the perpetrator must have been mightily chuffed to learn that he [or she] had got away scot free. Not only was the murder being blamed on someone called Jack the Ripper; there was also a signed postcard in the newspapers to prove it.

[Wickerman]

Although I know your answer, George Hutchinson comes in 4 days after the fact and puts himself in the place of someone that the police were suspicious enough about to issue a Pardon For Accomplices in that murder. He placed himself at the centre of controversy. Voluntarily. I think you and others have a skewed idea about what risks there were for someone coming forward who may have been seen in general terms late at night by someone. Revist the statement of Smith, he doesn't even mention whether or not the man had facial hair. What PC Smith does suggest is that someone just about Wess's age.. dressed nicely, as Wess would have done, with a parcel approximately the size of an Arbeter Fraint is seen with Liz at 12:35 just outside the club, very near the time Wess himself says he was carrying literature.

How on earth can you compare Hutchinson to Kidney, Barnet maybe, but not Hutchinson.
Besides, I thought you said you had no theory to promote?, you're certainly pushing this like it's yours to take home...

[Trevor Marriott]

Precisely the same argument applies to Kidney, if he was in any way involved, he isn't going to show up at the inquest on the chance of being recognised.

You have to realise that if Stride was a victim of a domestic assault she was probably killed in a spontaneous moment of anger and not preplanned, and so the perpetrator might not have been aware of what else, or who else was in the location to see him before or after the murder.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk