Stride Bruising

[curious4]

Potatoes

How many grapes are we talking about, two, four, twenty?
Half a pound of grapes is too many to hold in your fingers, so if she had any in her hand is was not more than a couple.



Quite so, but IF she had spit these out we have the reason why Phillips did not find any.



Her right hand was across her breast, anything held in her fingers could easily have slipped down in the dark, remember her chest faced the wall so in the pitch black below her abdomen nothing would be visible.



The hand which held the cachous was extended away from the body. Two or three black grapes dropped in the mud and blood?, in the dark , may have not been seen until the body was removed, and then stepped on in the darkness.
If I can see a reasonable explanation for an incident I tend not to dismiss it. Even though it may not be a popular position to take.



Ok, yes, but when we read "right hand" when everyone else said "left hand" then we must consider that either the press got the hand wrong or, they got it right, and this was another detail not mentioned by others.



You tell me who removed the cachous because Blackwell nor Phillips could agree. So lets not run away with the idea that Blackwell observed everything correctly that night



Had they fallen from her fingers by the time he arrived?
PC Lamb had grasped her right hand to feel her pulse before Blackwell arrived, that action might cause anything to slip from her fingers.

Hello,

Liz was supposed to have eaten potatoes.

It has occured to me that the victorians, especially the poor, and some swedes still today cook (and sometimes eat) potatoes with the skins still on. Could the doctor have mistaken the skins of grapes for thinnish potato skins?

Best wishes,
C4

[GregBaron]

How Dim is Mr. Sh*ts...?

If Deimshutz had observed grapes in Stride's right hand, then the hand would have been closed around the grapes.

If Deimsgutz saw grapes in Stride's hand

I still don't know why Diemschitz & Kozebrodski saw grapes if they were not there.

I think we should open a thread on how many spellings we can come up
with for Mr. Dimshits...!


Greg

[Observer]

Hi Wickerman

Then so is two witnesses claiming to see grapes, and, the fact a grape stalk was found in the drain, and, fruit stains on her handkerchief

The only other angle I can think of is if Diemschutz (got it right there Greg haha) watching Blackwell, and Philips retrieve the cachous somehow got it into his head that the two doctors were discussing grapes as having been in the hand of Liz Stride. Failing that, we have to take another look at Packer, and consider whether he was in actual fact telling the truth.

I don't see a major difference between the description, the location, and the time of sighting, given by Smith and that given by Packer. The question is, how come?

There is one major difference Wicker, we have a description of how Packer's man spoke, rough voice, rather quick in speaking. Pity he didn't comment on whether it was an English, or foreign accent.

But seriously, an important revelation held back by a hungry press for three days is hard to accept. I think it more likely that Packer sized the moment and jumped on the bandwagon.

I'd agree. His description does seem to be a compilation of the various witness statements readily available in the newspapers.

One thing I'd add, the contradictions that permeate the Liz Stride slaying are frustrating to say the least.

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

I think we should open a thread on how many spellings we can come up
with for Mr. Dimshits...!


Greg

Haha, absolutely Greg. Good job Superman's arch enemy Mr Mxyziptip wasn't involved, hold on Mr Myxzptlk.

Regards

Observer

[Wickerman]

Hi Wickerman

The only other angle I can think of is if Diemschutz (got it right there Greg haha) watching Blackwell, and Philips retrieve the cachous somehow got it into his head that the two doctors were discussing grapes as having been in the hand of Liz Stride.

Hi Observer.
Its just that I don't think the doctors had any reason to discuss grapes at the scene. The question posed at the inquest seems to have been the first they had heard of the issue.

We also have the observations of Rosenfield and Harstein to take into account, that before the yard was washed down they saw the grape stalk and flower petals scattered about.

Are they part of some ludicrous conspiracy too?

Failing that, we have to take another look at Packer, and consider whether he was in actual fact telling the truth.

It may be a little unlady-like for your date to been seen carrying a half pound bag of grapes. So, perhaps the man held the bag and Stride only had no more than a couple in her hand at a time.

On the other hand, if Packer is lying, then we might look at the market stalls set up in the High St. where everything was sold at all hours of the day and night. Is this where the grapes were bought?

There is one major difference Wicker, we have a description of how Packer's man spoke, rough voice, rather quick in speaking. Pity he didn't comment on whether it was an English, or foreign accent.

And one other detail that comes to mind. Smith's suspect carried a newspaper parcel.
Packer said he sold the half-pound of grapes in a paper bag, or was it a newspaper 'bag'? I mean, like a 'parcel' of fish and chips would look.

[lynn cates]

obvious answer

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"We're still avoiding the issue of why Diemschitz and Kozebrodski claimed to see grapes."

Well, the obvious answer is that one, the other, or both, thought they saw grapes.

Is something a priori wrong with Tom's blood clots thesis?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

time for a change

Hello Tecs.

"Maybe he's undergoing a re-evaluation?"

Maybe he has been evaluated as many times as his story has changed? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"We're still avoiding the issue of why Diemschitz and Kozebrodski claimed to see grapes."

Well, the obvious answer is that one, the other, or both, thought they saw grapes.

Is something a priori wrong with Tom's blood clots thesis?

Cheers.
LC

Well, your asking an ex-butcher if clotted blood can look like grapes, as opposed to what.....clotted blood?

What do you think the answer is?

I suppose we then have to assume that both Eddowes and Kelly were awash in grapes

[Observer]

Hi Wickerman

I was thinking more along the lines of the doctors actually discussing the cachous (not grapes) and Diemschutz misheard their conversation, he thinking they were discussing grapes.

Why he would do this I don't know.

They must have discussed the cachous as they were found surely. I'd doubt they used the term cachous, on the spot, to describe them. My guess would be sweets, bon bons perhaps.

As you say the grapes (if they existed) could have been purchased elsewhere.

It has been mentioned some time back that the package Smith saw could well have been the grapes wrapped in newspaper.

Regards

Observer

[lynn cates]

Grape answer!

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"What do you think the answer is?"

Well, what's the lighting like?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"What do you think the answer is?"

Well, what's the lighting like?

Cheers.
LC

Light enough to see cachous?

Only blood smears were on her hand, inside and out. Blackwell, Johnson, the Coroner, and Swanson all said so.
Grape shaped lumps of blood (the size of your thumb?) simply do not occur in an open environment. By that I mean blood levels itself out then congeals, in pools or flat smears.

If she had large dark lumps between her fingers it is odd that neither doctor mentioned these large clots, as they would indeed be most unusual. Blood does not clot in large round balls.

[DVV]

Blood does not clot in large round balls.

True, Jon.
That's why I didn't ask who drank Stride's blood ? but who ate the grapes ?

[Observer]

Hi David

I don't know who ate all the grapes, but if you saw me you'd quickly realise who ate all the pies.

Regards

Will .i. am Bunter

[lynn cates]

Let there be light.

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Light enough to see cachous?"

Well, light enough to see a piece of light tissue paper. And with what could the contents be confused?

Need blood clot in balls to produce the effect of ovoid entities?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

True, Jon.
That's why I didn't ask who drank Stride's blood ? but who ate the grapes ?

Maybe we are all wrong to assume she ate any grapes, though her companion bought grapes does not mean she ate any.

That which is quite reasonable to believe is not always a foregone conclusion.

Need blood clot in balls to produce the effect of ovoid entities?

Then how to determine a black ovoid is a grape, if not by the shape?