Arbeter Fraint's Take

[Chris]

Hello All. I think a HUGE thanks goes to Chris Phillips, for without his hard work, there would be no AF to translate.

Thanks. I'm pleased to have been of some help in bringing such an interesting article to light, but all I did was locate online a copiable holding of AF and order copies - a tiny contribution in comparison with Lynn's efforts in getting the text translated. I should also mention that Rob House kindly assisted in arranging the payment for the copies.

[Fisherman]

It is interesting to note that what Stride held in her hand is described as candies. That adds confirmation to the suspicion that the tablets were not strong cachous, as has been suggested by many a poster. It has been stated that they were probably tools of the trade for a prostitute, but the Arbeter Fraint instead describes them like candy, and thus potentially a gift, just like the rather elaborate flower Stride wore.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

I would genuinely ask why would we expect Schwartz to be mentioned in the club's press account of what happened after Liz's body was found? Schwartz gave a statement of what he saw to police, only the Star took the story up in detail, other newspapers briefly mentioning someone had witnessed a 'domestic.' Why would the AF journalists be any the wiser?

Debs, can you give us the newspaper quote(s) where Schwartz is mentioned as having witnessed a domestic? I'm interested in this.
As for why Lynn and I are discussing the fact that Schwartz is missing from the AF report, it's cuz he was mentioned in the Star report, cuz we suspect (as Tom does) that Wess went along to Leman Street to translate for Schwartz (as he did for Leon Goldstein), and cuz we have evidence that Wess was interviewed about the Schwartz incident in The Echo, with the story reprinted verbatim in The Scotsman. It's intriguing that Wess talked about that incident to another newspaper but omitted mentioning this in his OWN newspaper.

I have a question sort of relating to some thoughts I had on Schwartz but not fully worked through yet -is it true that once a witness has been used to identify a suspect, and he positively ID's someone who is known or later proven to be innocent-that his evidence is classed as no longer reliable and he can't be used as a witness anymore?

Legally no. But practically, who knows? Does this refer to the 2 suspects allegedly arrested and then left to go by the police and to the fact that there's no evidence that Schwartz was at the inquest? But why is Schwartz' supposed unreliability not mentioned in the Swanson report when Packer's unreliability as a witness IS mentioned by Swanson? Also wondering what Hunter would have to say on this and to what I asked him in my post #54. (Or if anyone else qualified wishes to answer that question in post #54, I'd be grateful.)

And Debs, do you know anything about that West End/Westminster alleged dismembered woman, or was it just a domestic and the AF exaggerates?

I'd also like to thank Chris Phillips for giving me the tip about the YIVO in N.Y., from where I've obtained microfilm printouts from AF issues from 1903/1905 when Schwartz the anarchist orator spoke. (So far in my search the AF carefully OMITS mentioning names of anarchist orators. Though I'm not sure if we should compare the AF in 1888 and in 1903, both in its content and in the political climate surrounding it.)

To Beowulf:
The Arbeter Fraint {The worker's friend} was a weekly anarchist/socialist newspaper printed in Yiddish, and the organ of the IWEC in 1888, edited by Philip Kranz, alias Jacob Rombro.

[lynn cates]

interruption

Hello Maria.

"Why are you so totally against a “mutilatus interruptus“, Lynn?"

Because it is a deus ex machina.

IF there was an interruption, it was more likely by a member going out the back door.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Gilman

Hello Tom. Thanks.

Gilman was the first thought I had about Gilyarovsky.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Scotsman

Hello Simon. Thanks. Sounds like the story from "The Scotsman."

If true, it could explain a great deal.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

error

Hello Maria.

"Since the IWEC presented the story that the killer was interrupted by Diemshitz around 1.00 a.m., isn't 00.45 a.m. a tiny bit early for them to be claiming that the murder took place? But possibly this could be a reporter's mixup."

Or possibly an error in their "cover story"?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Fraff

Hello Tom. If not Fraff, perhaps the Yaffa chap? He seems to have been working with Krantz/Rombro.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Debs, can you give us the newspaper quote(s) where Schwartz is mentioned as having witnessed a domestic? I'm interested in this.
As for why Lynn and I are discussing the fact that Schwartz is missing from the AF report, it's cuz he was mentioned in the Star report, cuz we suspect (as Tom does) that Wess went along to Leman Street to translate for Schwartz (as he did for Leon Goldstein), and cuz we have evidence that Wess was interviewed about the Schwartz incident in The Echo, with the story reprinted verbatim in The Scotsman. It's intriguing that Wess talked about that incident to another newspaper but omitted mentioning this in his OWN newspaper.


Legally no. But practically, who knows? Does this refer to the 2 suspects allegedly arrested and then left to go by the police and to the fact that there's no evidence that Schwartz was at the inquest? But why is Schwartz' supposed unreliability not mentioned in the Swanson report when Packer's unreliability as a witness IS mentioned by Swanson? Also wondering what Hunter would have to say on this and to what I asked him in my post #54. (Or if anyone else qualified wishes to answer that question in post #54, I'd be grateful.)

And Debs, do you know anything about that West End/Westminster alleged dismembered woman, or was it just a domestic and the AF exaggerates?

I'd also like to thank Chris Phillips for giving me the tip about the YIVO in N.Y., from where I've obtained microfilm printouts from AF issues from 1903/1905 when Schwartz the anarchist orator spoke. (So far in my search the AF carefully OMITS mentioning names of anarchist orators. Though I'm not sure if we should compare the AF in 1888 and in 1903, both in its content and in the political climate surrounding it.)

To Beowulf:
The Arbeter Fraint {The worker's friend} was a weekly anarchist/socialist newspaper printed in Yiddish, and the organ of the IWEC in 1888, edited by Philip Kranz, alias Jacob Rombro.

Maria, the accounts of someone seeing a domestic don't give Schwartz' name but I think it is the general consensus that it is Scwartz being refered to? That's what I've always assumed other were saying.

Right, I understand the Schwartz discussion now, Maria. Is any of that lot a proven fact?

Regarding the witness thing- I was just wondering, Maria. I haven't thought about it too deeply yet like I said. I've come across it happening in other police records of the period is all andwondered if it was a legal thing.

Isn't it the Whitehall torso they are refering to? Though not very accurately?

[lynn cates]

AF

Hello Beowulf. "Der Arbeter Fraint" was a socialist newspaper printed by the Anarchists at the Berner st club. The editor was Phillip Kranz (Jacob Rombro).

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

hands

Hello Christer. Thanks. About time you showed. (Heh-heh)

The imagery reminds one of the small child with a biscuit in each hand, munching indiscriminately from both.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

torso

Hello Beowulf. Thanks.

The other murder was one of the torso murders.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

varia

Hello Debs. Thanks. It was my pleasure.

"Re-the grapes. I'm with Maria and Tom on this. The club-men were the original source of the grape story in all the press reports. I would find it odder if there was no mention of the grapes in the clubs own account.'

That makes sense to me.

"Likewise with the Schwartz story. I may be being pretty naive here, and as I don't subscribe to any of the theories that Schwartz was anything other than a witness at the moment (so I'm not with Tom or maria or anyone else on this one ); I would genuinely ask why would we expect Schwartz to be mentioned in the club's press account of what happened after Liz's body was found?"

Well, I would have expected a mention of Schwartz along with a recounting--however brief--of the "Scotsman" story. For completeness.

"Schwartz gave a statement of what he saw to police, only the Star took the story up in detail, other newspapers briefly mentioning someone had witnessed a 'domestic.'
Why would the AF journalists be any the wiser?"

Not wiser, just supplying a bit of extant details.

"I have a question sort of relating to some thoughts I had on Schwartz but not fully worked through yet-is it true that once a witness has been used to identify a suspect, and he positively ID's someone who is known or later proven to be innocent-that his evidence is classed as no longer reliable and he can't be used as a witness anymore?"

Unofficially, that is true. Note what was written of Packer by The Met when his story shifted.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Chris. Then thanks to you AND Rob both.

I looked all over for months, but all I could find was a December issue. October is MUCH better.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cachous

Hello Christer. In my readings, I have found 2 kinds of cachous. The candy kind look like the little sugary things that go on a decorated cake. They are quite fragile and one wonders, a fortiori, how they survived her purported assault?

Cheers.
LC