Arbeter Fraint's Take

[lynn cates]

R-E-S-P-E-C-T (sorry, couldn't resist)

Hello Jon. Quite. But again there are those in the other camp who do the same.

I daresay that being less than fully respectful is a function of personality, NOT of the aggregate of views one holds nor how closely they conform to the standard--if one exists.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Neil. Why can't one have BOTH minimalists AND theorisers? Rather a symbiotic relationship?

All legitimate disciplines have minimalists, maximalists, theorists & synthesists. The problem here is that some "fantasists" try to use these labels in a disrespectful & condescending manner.
Unfortunately, there are even a few who have an overblown sense of their own importance who repeatedly throw scorn on anyone who disagree's with them.

Still, so long as we know what to expect, and from whom, it all adds to the amusment of the Casebook environment.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

details

Hello Rob. Thanks.

"There was a clubman (name escapes me at the moment) who took his girlfriend home and returned to the club around that time."

It was Morris Eagle. He claimed to have returned at 12.40--between the PC Smith sighting and the purported Schwartz event.

"Yes tricky, Stride didn't scream to loudly so she may not have been too alarmed about her safety and followed BS man into the yard to continue the argument? Walked in around in front of him so as she was looking at him she was facing the exit?"

That is almost exactly Christer's view.

Of course, something must have triggered such a violent outburst.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

symbiosis

Hello Neil. Why can't one have BOTH minimalists AND theorisers? Rather a symbiotic relationship?

As Kant pointed out, concepts and percepts must go together.

Cheers.
LC

[Rob Clack]

Maria,

This trend you have adopted from Tom, the use of labels to describe researchers, it smacks of pigeonholed thinking, the irony.

Its the 'minimalists' that keep this case on the straight and narrow. The 'minimalists' keep it within the realms of reality and not into your domain of the 'fantasists'.

It seems that some are picking up half truths, painting with with their interpretation and marking them as fact.

Everything seems to be a fact today, there is a genuine lack of, or reluctence, to understand the difference.

As for Rob being a minimalist, I've exchanged views with him privately and can state he is one of the best theorists around. The difference is he doesn't stretch the facts nor the probability.

Such sweeping comments only shows ignorance.

Monty

Thanks but I think it will fall on deaf ears.

Rob

[Rob Clack]

No...but a suggestion...

Dave

Of course he existed, there is no doubt about it.

Rob

[Rob Clack]

1. If the story is correct in all its parts, it seems singular that BS was coming from Commercial road. Is this a case of a club man going home then changing agenda? Perhaps a mistake on Schwartz's behalf?

Hi Lynn,

There was a clubman (name escapes me at the moment) who took his girlfriend home and returned to the club around that time.

2. If BS is trying to evict Liz, it was happening outside the gates. It seems, then, that we need a plausible sequence whereby Liz subsequently goes INTO the yard, puts cachous in hand, then begins to EXIT the yard. And of course this must be dovetailed with the inchoate eviction.

Yes tricky, Stride didn't scream to loudly so she may not have been to alarmed about her safety and followed BS man into the yard to continue the argument? Walked in around in front of him so as she was looking at him she was facing the exit?

Rob

[Cogidubnus]

Is that a trick question?

Rob

No...but a suggestion...

Dave

[Monty]

Labels

Maria,

This trend you have adopted from Tom, the use of labels to describe researchers, it smacks of pigeonholed thinking, the irony.

Its the 'minimalists' that keep this case on the straight and narrow. The 'minimalists' keep it within the realms of reality and not into your domain of the 'fantasists'.

It seems that some are picking up half truths, painting with with their interpretation and marking them as fact.

Everything seems to be a fact today, there is a genuine lack of, or reluctence, to understand the difference.

As for Rob being a minimalist, I've exchanged views with him privately and can state he is one of the best theorists around. The difference is he doesn't stretch the facts nor the probability.

Such sweeping comments only shows ignorance.

Monty

[lynn cates]

speculation

Hello Rob.

"I think there is a possibility BS man was a club member who was evicting Stride from the premises, things got out of hand and he cut her throat. That's just my opinion."

Hmm, I've waited a long time for such a speculative tit bit from you. I like this a lot and have only 2 problems with it, so far as I can see.

1. If the story is correct in all its parts, it seems singular that BS was coming from Commercial road. Is this a case of a club man going home then changing agenda? Perhaps a mistake on Schwartz's behalf?

2. If BS is trying to evict Liz, it was happening outside the gates. It seems, then, that we need a plausible sequence whereby Liz subsequently goes INTO the yard, puts cachous in hand, then begins to EXIT the yard. And of course this must be dovetailed with the inchoate eviction.

Any speculation is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

choir

Hello Debs. Thanks, but you may be preaching to the choir.

In my puny mind, no grapes, no malted liquor mean just that.

Cheers.
LC

[Rob Clack]

I assume you're referring to the Echo/Scotsman report, and not to the Star about the police allegedly not trusting Schwartz?
Sometimes one has to read between the lines, Rob. Why would Wess waste time mentioning an uncorroborated second hand story to a journalist? William Wess was a relatively successful businessman and a politician of sorts, he wasn't some wannabe self-important old lady running her mouth to anyone who would listen, à la Fanny Mortimer, just to be in the papers and maybe make a buck (OK: a penny) in the process.
Rob, sometimes ;-) I think you're sooo the minimalist that your right arm is not taking into consideration what the left arm's doing. Which is actually pretty useful for a photographer. By the by, mid next week I hope to go take a look at the inventaries for Bertillon at the Paris Archives Nationales, if you're interested.

What you are doing is speculating without any facts to back up your conclusions. I rarely do that and don't often post them. They are after all just opinion.
I was talking about the Areter Fraint article. No mention of Schwartz anywhere. If he was a club member then there would be mention in the article of him and what he saw that night.
If you want some of my minimalistic interpretation of facts that aren't there. I think there is a possibility BS man was a club member who was evicting Stride from the premises, things got out of hand and he cut her throat. That's just my opinion.
Since you know a lot about Wess, how good was his Hungarian?

Rob

[Rob Clack]

Hi Rob

Bearing in mind the total lack of reference to him, in what is after all the most contemporary and relevant work, and in the following issue too, did Schwartz even exist?

Dave

Is that a trick question?

Rob

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Thanks for that.

Hmm, I wonder how long before the HCl obliterates the traces?

Cheers.
LC

Lynn, obviously not instantly going by doctors being able to recognise "The solid masses were readily recognised by ocular inspection as portions of half-digested grapes and orange." in a Madame's case.
Liz was holding the grapes in her hand presumably because she was still busy eating them? Maybe right up until the moment of her death even? And the docs didn't see anything resembling grape flesh at all? Yet they managed to pick out cheese, potato and a farinaceous substance?
How did they identify the farinaceous substance-a chemical test for starch perhaps? If, so, then why wouldn't they have gone the whole hog and tested for fruit acids too?

[lynn cates]

proving him wrong

Hello Jon. Hmm, reminds me of the story of the couple whom the doctor pronounced incapable of becoming parents. But they had great fun trying to prove him wrong. (Heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC