Was Liz's "Date" Necessarily a Romantic One?

[Jon Guy]

Also, the man Schwartz describes is very similar to the man in the peaked hat that Marshall saw an hour earlier with Stride.

[Fisherman]

That is very true, Jon, and I know you have pointed this out before. If the Star was spot on about the respectability that adhered to BS man, then the two could have been twins - or, for that matter, the very same man.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

a few points

Hello Jon. Completely agree with you regarding discrepancies. They are a fact of investigation and to be expected.

Schwartz? Agree there as well. As I've stated many times before, I think the story was made up.

The PC Smith spotting? My favourite piece of testimony for that night. In my estimate, the ONLY one that is completely reliable.

Packer? An old bloke--near my age--much of whose testimony COULD be ascribed to precisely that factor. But, as I said above, that story about no police questioning him does not jibe with his later testimony.

Incidentally, personal theories--in my opinion--should not be formed until AFTER the evidence is sorted. That's hypothetico-deductive method. Not worth a great deal, but is used in science.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

That is very true, Jon, and I know you have pointed this out before. If the Star was spot on about the respectability that adhered to BS man, then the two could have been twins - or, for that matter, the very same man.

The best,
Fisherman

Agreed, Jon and Fish. Attempts to identify Marshall's suspect with the man described by Best and Gardner are far less convincing.

[lynn cates]

May the Schwartz be with you.

Hello Christer. High time you showed up.

I hope the AF story of October 5 will shed some light on the Schwartz story.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

timing

Hello Jon G. Indeed. But I'm wondering if you can envision a natural sequence in which he leaves and comes back, and which accounts for the timing?

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"I'm wondering if you can envision a natural sequence in which he leaves and comes back, and which accounts for the timing?"

One could easily put together a scenario in which Lis spends the whole evening in the company of the same man. PC SMiths man is not all that far off the mark, compared to Marshall´s man and BS man.
Please observe we have no sightings of Liz where she was all alone - even in the Schwartz scenario, she was joined by BS man at the gate.

And if she spent the whole evening in one man´s company, I don´t find it too hard to accept that he could have said "I´ll just pop over to XX and knock on his windowsill to swop a few words - back in a jiffy!" or "Jeez, I should not have drunk that last beer, now I´ll have to go off and take a leak round the corner" or anything else totally equally profane. He need not have been away for many a minute.

Such a thing would be very common to me.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

the "AF" and the Stride murder

Hello Fisherman. Welcome back.
The Scotsman (Lynn's?) report is well-known among Berner Street specialists. The second part (about a man seen chasing another) constitutes in my opinion an attempt by William Wess to get on top of things after the fact.

There is actually an article that offers some sort of possible corroboration, Jon. It was published in "The Scotsman" on the 2nd of October and the relevant part goes like this:
The club itself, which is next door to the large gate, was yesterday closed; but all the forenoon members and others who have special business there were admitted after knocking at the door. The committee of the institution held a meeting yesterday morning, at which the crime was talked over, and it was decided not to admit any stranger without the payment of a fee. This fee, the secretary explained, was to assist the propaganda. The committee, it seems, did not fix the amount to be charged, but, in reply to a question, the secretary said he thought 5s.

The first part of the Scotsman report, as quoted above, is actually corroborated in the AF of October 12, 1888: http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5346
Notice
The new rules have already been worked out and take effect on Friday the 12th of October. As with all matters pertaining to the club, this will be given over to a committee, and at the next meeting the committee will be elected. All members are requested to come on time.

I hope the AF story of October 5 will shed some light on the Schwartz story.

Yes, let's hope. By the by, no "Schwartz" yet found in the AFs from the spring of 1905, but I'm still looking.

Lynn, do you suspect Joseph Lane to have been the "newspaper man" seen with Stride due to his being American, do you expect a better dress code for him?

[lynn cates]

Close, but no cigar.

Hello Christer.

"One could easily put together a scenario in which Liz spends the whole evening in the company of the same man."

I think that is correct--and simply done.

"PC Smith's man is not all that far off the mark, compared to Marshall´s man and BS man.'

If you like. No problem, YET.

"Please observe we have no sightings of Liz where she was all alone - even in the Schwartz scenario, she was joined by BS man at the gate."

No argument there.

"And if she spent the whole evening in one man´s company, I don´t find it too hard to accept that he could have said "I´ll just pop over to XX and knock on his windowsill to swap a few words - back in a jiffy!" or "Jeez, I should not have drunk that last beer, now I´ll have to go off and take a leak round the corner" or anything else totally equally profane. He need not have been away for many a minute."

Entirely agree. Of course, this bloke--if he existed--had NOTHING to do with her slaying. Else, how explain the sudden change?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Lave

Hello Maria.

"The second part (about a man seen chasing another) constitutes in my opinion an attempt by William Wess to get on top of things after the fact."

Indeed. As, in my estimation, the entire story.

Not sure how the AF story confirms the "Scotsman" story?

Did you mean Joseph Lave or Joseph Lane? The former went out at just about that time, so is a good guess for the PC Smith chap. Lane was associated with William Morris at the other club.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"Else, how explain the sudden change?"

With a volatile temper, coupled with an untimely remark and a sudden rage, Lynn. We are not all that predictable, us human beings, I´m afraid.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

remark

Hello Christer. Thanks.

A couple years ago I tried speculating about the nature of such a possible remark. All I could think of was, "Ah, back again, Shorty?"

Would that do it?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Not sure how the AF story confirms the "Scotsman" story?

I was referring to the fact that organizational changes were introduced in the IWEC after the murder, as corroborated by both newspaper quotes in my post #83.

Did you mean Joseph Lave or Joseph Lane? The former went out at just about that time, so is a good guess for the PC Smith chap. Lane was associated with William Morris at the other club.

Ouch, mixed my Joseph Lanes and Joseph Laves.
I'm afraid I'm not too much into the case mentally right now, this month I REALLY need to concentrate on my book. But I'll complete the search for Schwartz, that I can do.

[lynn cates]

n

Hello Maria. Thanks.

Funny you should mention it, but Joseph Lane's signature looks EXACTLY like "Joseph Lave." Fooled me for some time. His n's have points, not humps.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"A couple years ago I tried speculating about the nature of such a possible remark. All I could think of was, "Ah, back again, Shorty?"
Would that do it?"

That would depend on what "Shorty" was referring to, methinks ...

The best,
Fisherman