Was Liz's "Date" Necessarily a Romantic One?

[c.d.]

Over the years, some posters have argued that Liz's actions early that evening (i.e.,attention to her appearance and the flower) indicate that this was in preparation for a date. Now assuming for the sake of argument that they are correct, does that necessarlily imply that the date was what we would think of as a romantic one? In other words, a lover or suitor. Could it be that it was in fact a date, but more in line with prostitution? Maybe a blotchy type individual who didn't mind paying for sex but who also wanted a little companionship thrown into the mix. I would think that those types of "dates" end after the sex and the woman is left on her own. It would seem a natural progression to continue the evening by straight prostitution.

"Hello, luv, care for a quick one?"

c.d.

[lynn cates]

theories

Hello CD. That's an interesting question. I found an old snippet in "The Echo" in which a reporter was dispatched to the neighbourhood to chat up the coppers. They thought she was soliciting. Why? "Because of her get up."

I also know a ripper student who thought she was looking to move in (long term) with someone.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi CD, a reasonable assumption imo.

(i.e.,attention to her appearance and the flower)
c.d.

There is something unclear about this flower.
At the inquest, PC Smith said he had noticed "a flower" (in the jacket of the woman he believed to be Stride, having seen the body).
Swanson is more precise in his 19th Sept report : "Smith saw a man and a woman, the latter with a red rose."
But Dr Blackwell, who was at the spot, said it was "a bunch of flowers".

A bunch of red roses, then ? Seems a bit too much.

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I would think that a "Sugar Daddy" would certainly be highly desirable to someone in Liz's condition. I mean Sugar Daddy by Whitechapel standards -- someone with a decent job who didn't mind spending a little money on his "dates." Certainly such a prize would require a little extra time spent on appearance to attract and keep him.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

Everything's coming up roses.

Hello David. Yes. Bunch would be quite expensive. I think there was speculation about a geranium. Can't recall the source.

Cheers.
LC

[Addy]

Hi all,

Perhaps she hoped to attrack a better sort of client, in other words: someone who could pay a bit more than the avarage man in Whitechapel? The sugerdaddy idea also seems plausible.

Greetings,

Addy

[lynn cates]

breakup

Hello CD. Completely agree. And if this had been in the works for some time, perhaps that would explain Liz's breakup with Michael.

You know, the Swedish church was not far away. Wonder if there was anything brewing with the pastor, Ollson--or whatever his name was.

Bah! Just thinking aloud.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

neighbourhood

Hello Addy. Perhaps, but I wonder if there were any of them in that neighbourhood? The club chaps were rather poor.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello David. Yes. Bunch would be quite expensive. I think there was speculation about a geranium. Can't recall the source.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn, thanks, too bad you can't recall. A geranium ? I've never offered a geranium !

[richardnunweek]

Hi Lynn.
''You will say anything but your prayers'' religious overtones I would suggest
Regards Richard.

[Observer]

Hi David

It was Packer who said he saw Liz wearing a geranium.

O

[DVV]

Oh ! Many thanks Obs.

[Hunter]

At the risk of being redundant, this is from a post of mine some months ago on the same subject:


Although I'd be the first to admit that what I am about to relate is speculation, there are some keys to her past that may bear some clues. Starting with her move to Gothenburg, she alternately worked as a domestic servant and as a prostitute. It is not unlikely that she may have been expected to perform duties other than just 'domestic' while working as a servant. We know that she gave birth to a stillborn girl who's antecedents are unknown. Many young women drifted into prostitution as a result of such experiences which resulted in a drifter's lifestyle because of the stigma attached, disease and a developing taste for alcohol.

I believe Elizabeth learned to use both professions in tandem when the need would arise. If she could, she would seek a client who would take her home or at least, to a hotel or other lodging. She was very capable of putting on 'airs' if need be and as a servant learned that tidiness and some respectable appearance was a must to attract a customer who was capable of more than just a 'knee jerker' in an alley.

Certainly, she accepted the hope for stability in a relationship, but these never seemed to work out; either because of financial trouble, abuse or alcohol... or what I perceive as Elizabeth's own urge- started when she left home at 17- to ramble on occasion; especially when she saw her situation as untenable.

She had the benefit of a well rounded Church education and was intelligent. Each time she seemed at the precipice, she managed to pull herself out by her wit, which included- if need be- to play upon the sympathy of others.

He lowest point in life had to be when she entered the workhouse. For a woman of her character it had to be a very desperate act to become an 'inmate' at such a facility. This episode probably led her to try a steady relationship once more; this time with Michael Kidney, who- unlike Thomas Stride- was much younger than her. But, the revolving door was already in place. With abuse, alcohol and a fierce independence she spent the remaining years living two separate lives with Kidney, at No. 32 'Flowery Dean' and, I think on occasion, with other temporary suitors. Kidney even hinted at that in his deposition at the inquest.

Whether Elizabeth Stride would have, once again, gone back to Kidney or she had finally determined to start a new life... we'll never know. By September 30, 1888 she was getting long in the tooth- at least what teeth she had left. She had been 'rode hard and put up wet' and despite her endeavor to still show some semblance of dignity, her options had probably diminished. Even the fantasy world that I believe she lived in sometimes to escape reality could no longer hide that fact.

I do think that Elizabeth tried to be as resourceful as she could all the way to the end... no matter what her purpose was in Berner Street that night. Her features, her very drab dress and her placement on a dimly lit street at that hour exposed the reality. Perhaps, in her mind, the freshness and color of that rose backed by a maidenhair fern represented hope of some kind.
__________________

[lynn cates]

fern

Hello David. Again, not sure where I heard that one. There was also a dispute between kinds of fern.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

clerk

Hello Richard. I think you are absolutely correct there.

I say, perhaps that would tie in with the clerkly fellow whom Christer is interested in?

Cheers.
LC