A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[Tom_Wescott]

Shoot. I forgot to say that what Rob meant is that you are decent enough to quote your sources in articles, not squirelling them up for an intended book. I agree with that approach (see SPE's generosity, proven so many times), and if I find something of any value in Paris (big IF), it will be immediately posted on casebook.

My thanks to Rob for that, but it's not so much generosity on my part as it is sheer stupidity and naivety.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

To Tom Wescott:
Tom, I happen to believe (from experiences also in my own field) that generosity is not naiveté. I don't believe in squirelling away sources and theories, to me it comes off as cheap. I believe in being careful to always make it known when someone's the one who generated said sources and theories – which is not that hard, since Ripperology's a tiny field. Even musicology (my own field) is tiny enough to secure authorship before publication.

Tom Wescott wrote:
Because of the respect many authors and writers have for Dave, because he is an awesome guy, they have generally withheld comment about the book, and this has led some to assume it just slipped by unread. But I assure, there's a reason why it is not discussed to much.
I suspected this and got it confirmed while reading the book. And I can say, there have been totally similar experiences in my own field.
I suspect that Mr Yost's forte are articles. The Long vs Cadosche contribution sounds promising. I always wanted to read more about that theme (I think I've mostly read Vanderlinden on this so far).

Tom Wescott wrote:
My favorite line from the book reads, "The young man was middle-aged."
Hmmm, is that where the “middle-aged“ debate in several Stride threads came from? I remember Fish being very intensely involved in this debate. Perhaps Jon Guy too.

[Fleetwood Mac]

To Sir Robert Anderson:
Yes, I've heard about the “Lippy“ scenario, also about the “Lizzie“. There are a few old casebook threads (probably also JTRForums threads) devoted to this. To be quite honest, I don't really know what to think about Schwartz nowadays. My opinion of him changes by the minute! One thing I promise: If he ever wrote any article or editorial for Der Arbeter Fraint (which is very possible in the period between 1902-1905), it will take about a year, but I swear, I'll nail him. What I wish is that we could find the Abberline reports, but dream on...

I've just done a quick google of Victorian slang and come up with the following on anything that could be misconstrued as 'Lipski' in the context of the event (most of this is a stretch though and you'd have to imagine this in a cockney accent!):

Dicky - a woman's under-petticoat.

Diddies - a woman's breasts.

Mincies - eyes (shouted to the supposed getaway).

Lucky - make a getaway (shouted to Schwartz).

Judy - a prostitute (shouted to Stride).

Nickey - simple in the head (shouted to Stride).

Bizarrely....it also revealed that Jack was slang for detective (for those fond of the policeman theory) and christening Jack was slang for a criminal who engaged in erasing the original name or number from a stolen watch and substituting it for a fictitious one (for the Maybrick theorists).

[Tom_Wescott]

One of Stride's nicknames was Hippy Lip Annie. 'Hippy' means to stick out, which is what her bottom lip did, so it became a nickname like 'Long Liz'. However, what BS Man called out was 'Lipski' and not Lizzie, Lippie, Lezzie, or anything else that has been suggested over the years.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

To Fleetwood Mac:
I don't know, “Lipski“ still appears the most plausible one.

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
christening Jack was slang for a criminal who engaged in erasing the original name or number from a stolen watch and substituting it for a fictitious one (for the Maybrick theorists).
Wow! Priceless. I love this.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
christening Jack was slang for a criminal who engaged in erasing the original name or number from a stolen watch and substituting it for a fictitious one (for the Maybrick theorists).
Wow! Priceless. I love this.

Ain't it!

Here's another one:

Jolly one who assists in a sham street row for the purpose of creating a row and promoting robbery from the person.

If not mistaken.....both Sadler and Grainger claimed to have been robbed before being taken away for questioning...

Jack was killing women who were setting up these street robberies.....gives a whole new meaning to the term "just for jollies".

Probably won't make me millions in some book.....but dig a bit deeper and you could put a theory together that will rank alongside the raft of 'just about believable' efforts that are currently doing the rounds.....

[Fleetwood Mac]

One of Stride's nicknames was Hippy Lip Annie. 'Hippy' means to stick out, which is what her bottom lip did, so it became a nickname like 'Long Liz'. However, what BS Man called out was 'Lipski' and not Lizzie, Lippie, Lezzie, or anything else that has been suggested over the years.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Tom.....I'm not convinced a non English speaking foreigner could understand a cockney or any of the other working class dialects of this country.....I've met Americans and Australians who have struggled to dechiper working class English...so a Hungarian/Pole/Russian would have serious problems.

[mariab]

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
gives a whole new meaning to the term "just for jollies".
That's exactly what I thought too.

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
Probably won't make me millions in some book.....but dig a bit deeper and you could put a theory together that will rank alongside the raft of 'just about believable' efforts that are currently doing the rounds.....
Don't even ask about the crazy theories I'm currently entertaining about Schwartz... But it will all sort itself out in due time.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
gives a whole new meaning to the term "just for jollies".
That's exactly what I thought too.

Fleetwood Mac wrote:
Probably won't make me millions in some book.....but dig a bit deeper and you could put a theory together that will rank alongside the raft of 'just about believable' efforts that are currently doing the rounds.....
Don't even ask about the crazy theories I'm currently entertaining about Schwartz... But it will all sort itself out in due time.

Schwartz was a recently discharged surgeon in the Austro-Hungarian Army and was acquainted with Hutchison due to their shared 'military appearance'....they were the two military men in the company of Tabram and friend and the reason they couldn't place Schwartz's uniform was because he was wearing an Austrian one....

Water-tight.

[mariab]

Fleedwood Mac wrote:
Water-tight.
Case closed, as Patricia Cornwell's editor would say. We might as well pack up and go.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Fleedwood Mac wrote:
Water-tight.
Case closed, as Patricia Cornwell's editor would say. We might as well pack up and go.

As long as I get my royalties for resolving the issue.....

[Adam Went]

Tom:

I’ve checked out your letter to the editor several times, and as you’ve already stated, I responded to it in the following issue – yet I note nothing which classifies as an actual source for Fanny Mortimer’s half an hour actually being a specific 10 minutes, to the very dot of 12.46 – 12.56. I’m sure it would take just a few seconds of your time to post up just one of those sources on this thread, yes? If not, I can only continue presuming that such sources don’t in fact exist at all, other than in your own mind to choose what suits your own theory the best….

Cheers,
Adam.

[mariab]

I'm of the opinion that Ms Mortimer exaggerated the time spent at her front door, that it was less than half an hour, but what truly bothers me is this supposed dot of 12.46 – 12.56, this is more reminiscent of a digital watch than a Victorian church clock/doctor's watch. Do we know for a fact that Victorian clocks/watches were synchronized? This is not even attainable today in everyday's life, apart from newsrooms and labs.
(I'll most certainly back order Rip 113-116, among else. I'm currently establishing a list of issues to back order.)

[sleekviper]

If pipe man is across the street watching, standing, or whatever, what direction would he be facing to see BS and Stride?

[Casebook Wiki Editor]

To Sir Robert Anderson:Yes, I've heard about the “Lippy“ scenario, also about the “Lizzie“. There are a few old casebook threads (probably also JTRForums threads) devoted to this.

Anyone who cares to point me towards them would be most welcome. They've eluded me, including a search of the CD-ROM of the old boards.