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  • #16
    Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    Hi Phil,

    Well, unless Kidney was a total idiot, he would have to realize that he would be the prime suspect in the case. Since the police had an eyewitness (Schwartz), it would have to occur to him that Schwartz could/would be asked to identify him. If I had been Kidney, and had killed Liz and been seen by Schwartz, I would have hauled ass. But hey, that's just me.

    c.d.
    I tend to believe that Stride was a Ripper-victim. I just want to mention, murderers have done dumber things than staying put even when faced with witnesses.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by ChainzCooper
      What are your thoughts on my theory Garza?
      Jordan
      I don't know, everytime I read the Schwartz statement with other witness statements, the more and more it seems "off". Schwartz seen a pipeman, labeled his height, appearance and what he was smoking, but didn't see the couple standing right were he was?

      Never mind the yelps of Liz and yell of "Lipski" surely would have got Fanny Mortimer running outside because she seemed to have the ears of a badger. Also Mortimer talked to the couple at the corner whom said they heard nothing. Huh? They didn't hear a girl yelp when she was pushed to the ground and a cry of "Lipski" 12 yards away? Fair enough, they may be attending to each other to not notice little things, but shouts would get them to glance their heads a little.

      As for Aaron. Don't know.
      Pipeman - could be. If Schwartz testimony is true, which I am unsure about.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Garza
        Also there was another couple about 20 yards away at the corner of the board school from the whole incident, whom were never questioned at all it seems. They would have seen everything except the murder in the yard.
        They were interviewed, but were about 45 minutes off in their timing. They had walked the area from about midnight to 12:30am, so actually wouldn't have seen any of the action.

        Regarding Pipeman, I've identified him as Charles Le Grand. A photo of him appears in Evans and Rumbelow's 'Scotland Yard Investigates'. Some say he looks like Russell Crowe. I don't see it.

        Yours truly,

        Tom Wescott

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
          They were interviewed, but were about 45 minutes off in their timing. They had walked the area from about midnight to 12:30am, so actually wouldn't have seen any of the action.

          Regarding Pipeman, I've identified him as Charles Le Grand. A photo of him appears in Evans and Rumbelow's 'Scotland Yard Investigates'. Some say he looks like Russell Crowe. I don't see it.

          Yours truly,

          Tom Wescott
          Really? So James Brown was wrong with his timing? Why did Mrs Mortimer say they would have seen anything before and after the murder. Like I said I'm new to this stuff. I have tons of ripper in the books coming in the post, maybe I should shut up before I embarass myself further lol lol.

          How did you identify pipeman? Quite impressive!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
            They were interviewed, but were about 45 minutes off in their timing. They had walked the area from about midnight to 12:30am, so actually wouldn't have seen any of the action.

            Regarding Pipeman, I've identified him as Charles Le Grand. A photo of him appears in Evans and Rumbelow's 'Scotland Yard Investigates'. Some say he looks like Russell Crowe. I don't see it.

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott
            Really? How did you do that?
            Jordan

            Comment


            • #21
              Ok here goes my theory, similar to Paul Feldman's:
              Liz Sride is outside the pub waiting for a potential customer to come out. Aaron Kosminski comes up to her and some sort of altercation ensues which is witnessed by Israel Schwartz. She grabs her knife and is pushed down by Kosminski. James Maybrick exits the pub (probably high) and goes to light his pipe. Seeing Schwartz, Kosminski yells 'Lipski' out to him. Schwartz gets scared and runs away. Kosminski chases after him. Maybrick walks up to Stride and helps her up grabbing her knife out her hand. He hands her a caucous to console her. They then walk into the yard and thinking Maybrick is good to go sets up a deal with him while chewing on the caucous.Maybrick puts her knife in his pocket. Stride then leans against a wall and pulls her skirt up to be taken from behind by Maybrick. Instead he takes out her knife pulls his arm around and slits her throat. Because the knife is dull, Stride screams out while dying. Maybrick gets spooked and hurries away. He drops the knife into a doorway while making his escape.
              Jordan

              Comment


              • #22
                Its a hell of a night. Maybrick has committed another murder and he can't believe this time he didn't get caught. 'How did no one see me? That fool was just a few yards away from me on his horse.' Full of adrenaline and arsenic he just has to do it again. 'But what if I get caught?' he thinks to himself, 'The Police will surely be swarming all over the area after discovering the last whore.' Within the next few minutes he meets up with Catherine Eddowes. He looks harmless to her and they begin talking.They walk to Mitre Square and stop to set up a deal. Joseph Lawende and his two friends walk by them. Lawende notices them talking but continues by.Seeing them walk away, Maybrick and Eddowes walk into the square, her ahead of him. Maybrick catches her off guard, grabs her from behind and strangles her to death. She falls to the ground and he rolls her over.He quickly rifles through her meager possessions and pulls out his red leather cigarette case and puts it with her other things. Maybrick knows the Police will think it belonged to her and overlook it.'I've got to work quick' he thinks to himself. He grabs the match (that he was going to use to light his pipe) from his left pant pocket with his left hand and his knife from his inside coat pocket with his right hand. He strikes the match and tries to cut her head off but can't. Frustrated, he begins mutliating her body with his knife. He locates her uterus and kidney and throws away the match. He grabs them up with his left hand and cuts off a piece of her apron to put the organs in.'These will be tasty for later' he thinks. He sets his knife down and puts the organs in the apron and puts them in his coat pocket. He tears off another piece of her apron,picks his knife up, cleans it and his hands and puts them into his pocket. 'Where the hell is the constable, fool, hes got to be around here somewhere.I'll leave them a clue' He grabs the knife again with his right hand and mutilates her face. He leaves the two inverted v marks on her cheeks.'M for Maybrick' he thinks. Maybrick hurries away. Just a few seconds later PC Watkins appears on his beat and discovers the body. Maybrick then crosses over to Goulston Street. 'I'll leave them my first name this time.' He pulls out a piece of chalk and writes the graffiti in cursive making the a look like u and an m like w. It looks like The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing. He pulls out the second piece of apron from his pocket, wipes off his hands again, and drops it on the ground to indicate to the Police that he wrote the message. Maybrick then doublebacks over to Middlesex Street to his hide out to write the 'Saucy Jack' postcard.
                Jordan

                Comment


                • #23
                  So far as Kidney remaining in the area is concerned, when he knew he might have been recognised, surely he did do something?

                  He went to the police and started raging about their behaviour and the way in which they were handling the case.

                  Some writers have suggested that his words seem odd and that he appears to ahve known more than he should.

                  Could it not have been Kidney's response to the problem he faced?

                  Phil

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Gawd above.

                    Shall we take a vote? Pipeman was:

                    Le Grand
                    Maybrick
                    Chapman
                    A Schwartz invention - paid for by Le Grand
                    None of the above

                    BS man was:

                    Kosminski
                    Kidney
                    A Schwartz invention - paid for by Le Grand
                    None of the above



                    Anyone fancy a pint?

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Garza View Post
                      I don't know, everytime I read the Schwartz statement with other witness statements, the more and more it seems "off". Schwartz seen a pipeman, labeled his height, appearance and what he was smoking, but didn't see the couple standing right were he was?

                      Never mind the yelps of Liz and yell of "Lipski" surely would have got Fanny Mortimer running outside because she seemed to have the ears of a badger. Also Mortimer talked to the couple at the corner whom said they heard nothing. Huh? They didn't hear a girl yelp when she was pushed to the ground and a cry of "Lipski" 12 yards away? Fair enough, they may be attending to each other to not notice little things, but shouts would get them to glance their heads a little.

                      As for Aaron. Don't know.
                      Pipeman - could be. If Schwartz testimony is true, which I am unsure about.
                      Hey Garza,
                      The whole thing could have been lost in translation from Schwartz. I watch a lot of fights on HBO and after the match they usually interview the boxers. If the fighter doesn't speak English they have an interpreter who relays the question from Larry Merchant. The fighter gives his answer and the translator says it in English to Merchant. I think sometimes the answers aren't entirely what the boxer says the translator gives an almost complete overview of the fighter's answer. (Like if he gives a long answer.) A similar thing to what could have happened back then.
                      Jordan

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Caz
                        Shall we take a vote? Pipeman was:

                        Le Grand
                        Can there be any doubt?

                        Yours truly,

                        Tom Wescott

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Yes , isn't that why this forum is here?
                          Jordan

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't know, IS the forum here for doubt?

                            Yours truly,

                            Tom Wescott

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              On this subject more than any other surely "doubt" has to have its place.

                              Of that there can be no doubt.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Hey Tom,
                                I mean its here for friendly debate right? I haven't heard of this Charles LeGrand guy. Maybe you could tell me about him that would be cool. Even though I would doubt it (j/k)
                                Jordan

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