Elizabeth's personality...?

[LongLiz]

As you can understand i'm really interested in Elizabeth's personality...I've been reading a book about her but there is no information about her personality. The only thing i know is that she was really sensitive...After she lost her baby, she worked as a housemaid but she ran away because the family would have a baby and she just couldn't stand their happiness knowing that her baby had passed away...

Does anyone know anything else about Elizabeth's personality?

(p.s:this is my first theard)

(p.s2: Sorry for my bad english)

[Hunter]

re- Elizabeth's personality

Hello LongLiz,

You will find little about Elizabeth's personality, I'm afraid. She apparently left no letters or personal documents to give us an insight to her character. There is only the testimony of her associates made after her death and a few records that may show a pattern of behavior. So, what I am about to offer is supposition based on what little we know.

I believe Elizabeth, like many of us, was a paradox. She seemed to want the stability that a relationship would offer, but also demonstrated a streak of independance brought about by drifting from "pillar to post" in her earlier life. She had learned not to rely too heavily on others but was more than willing to accept what was offered for her benefit when the need would arise. To cope with reality she apparently developed a fantasy world; a world that placed her as more "proper" and respectable than her actual circumstances were. She tried to keep clean and tidy and seemed not to speak to others in the lower parlance of her peers; even to the extent of developing a proper English accent. Her Princess Alice disaster story served a twofold purpose. It was less demeaning to lose her husband and two children in a tragedy than a failed marrage brought on by alcohol and finacial failure; and it served to gain simpathy and charity from others, including the Swedish Church. She had told the story so much that she probably came to believe it herself; an innoculous way to preserve what's left of one's dignity. She was clever and industrious, even outwitting her last paramore, Michael Kidney, on occasion- the hidden padlock key comes to mind.

She was also an alcoholic and a prostitute. Liz had resorted to both on occasion throughout her life; and it was this vicious cycle, along with Kidney's alcoholism and abuse that marked their on and off relationship for three years. Her sober and respectable character would transform into someone that was incompatable when inebriated. I would classify her as a binge drinker, although as most people at that time, she drank a little every day. She would drift back and forth between Kidney and the lodging house, disappearing from both on occasion. It was these times that, like many of her peers, she took to the streets.

A missionary mentions the words of a prostitute that knew Elizabeth in the Daily News, Oct 3-

'She first knew the dead woman three years ago, she said, and she was then certainly very pretty, always had a nice clean apron, and was always smart and tidy. She took up with a labourer, said the woman, and "lived indoors with him," but he beat her and so ill-used her that she was forced to turn out in the streets. She took to drink, and seemed to grow reckless and desperate.'

On the evening on September 29, 1888, Elizabeth Stride, once again on her own, sets out to do what she had to do many times before. Her friends said she was cheerful and upbeat, and as always dressed her best; never knowing that he long journey from Torslanda Parish was to end in a rendezvous with destiny.

From the Daily News, Oct. 2, 1888-

'These women sally forth night after night, and many times in the night, and all the terrors of the assassin's knife cannot keep them indoors. They take a turn in the streets to earn the money for their lodging, or the money for their gin... The uniformity of personal history in these debased creatures is not the least singular thing about them. They have mostly known better times, if only for the almost sufficient reason that they could not have known worse. They have sunk to their present condition by their own vices, intensified in their effect by the ignorance, the helplessness, the want of all counsel and guidance that constitute their miserable birthright... They go forth as steadily to their bestial toil as the ploughman goes to his labour in the harvest field. They were out last night, no doubt, by the hundred and the thousand, and whenever the murderer wants a new victim, he may be as sure of finding them at their post as of finding rats in a sewer. Their trade is so much a matter of course that evidently the dark and dismal rendezvous that serve his purpose never once excite suspicions in their minds. '

[LongLiz]

Thank you so much Hunter!!! All these are really useful!!! Thanks for your time too!!!

[Hunter]

I believe as humans we all feel empathy for these women and the fate that they endured. It may be debated as to whether their enviroment influenced their life or it was the choices they made themselves. I happen to believe, as with all of us, its a little bit of both. There are matters in all of our lives that we have no control over and matters that we do. The combination of both is what makes each of us unique. Elizabeth Stride was no different. She wasn't delt a very good hand and in many respects didn't play it very well either. She learned to survive on her wit and whatever ability she had in the circumstances that she was placed or placed herself in. She chose to find comfort from a harsh reality on occasion in her fantasies and alcohol. Stronger people than her were able to overcome them. More prominent people than her did just as she and still garnished fame. Unfortunately, her fame was in the horror that was her demise. Whatever her sins, she paid the ultimate price; and on that, we can say no more.

[kensei]

I am sorry to say something unflattering about the dead, but if Liz were to play out her life today I think she would very likely be referred to as a pathological liar, which is a dimly-understood part personality flaw and part mental disorder also known as "mythomania" and "pseudologia fantastica." I say this because of the parallels I see between her and someone I had pass through my own life a few years ago, someone I thought was one of the most incredible young women I'd ever known until I found out how much of her life story was fictitious and how devious she was in private.

This person lied about her age, faked breast cancer, faked a TRIPLE pregnancy that was complete with weight gain and ultrasound photos and ended with a fake miscarriage, impersonated me on the Internet which ended up turning former friends against me, and ended up convicted of embezzling money from a law firm which she spent on compulsive shopping sprees (she got probation), the whole time playing the part of my friend to my face, playing the victim, and maintaining a home that looked like something out of "Better Homes & Gardens." I have not seen her in five years but have recently heard that since our last contact she has faked both cancer and pregnancy again.

Liz Stride as I understand it had a habit of committing many petty offenses and usually failing to show up for court, tried to claim survivor's benefits for herself and multiple children in the sinking of the Princess Alice when in reality she had not been involved at all and the children never even existed, and in general seems to have regarded being a scam artist as a legitamite means of earning a living if possible, in addition to prostituting herself. Yet even in the filthy East End she apparently did what she could to groom and dress herself in as fine a manner as possible.

There are other comparisons between Liz and my friend that I must also note, though. Both were pregnant once for real- Liz lost her baby, while my friend had a young son. And both were victims of abuse, which contributed heavily in making them what they were. With my personal experience and the effect it had on my life, I am torn between dismissing such people and having sympathy for them. If the line "You would say anything but your prayers" was really said to Liz by the Ripper, I could apply that to either of them.

[Hunter]

Hello Kensei,

I would say that you are correct in your assertion. Her stories served her to hide unpleasent episodes in her life from her peers and to gain whatever she felt that she needed at the time. I would imagine that her missing teeth were from a domestic quarrel if it wasn't from normal decay. Given their history of alcohol abuse and the Magistrate court records I would imagine that Liz and Michael could equally dish it out, so to speak. I've known couples like that.

[LongLiz]

Hello Kensei,

i don't and i will never blame Liz for her lies. Instead i really admire her because, although her horrible life, she wanted to live. She just was a bit more devious-clever than the others, thinking some more ways that helped her living. Besides those lies didn't harm anyone... Just try to understand her psychology... When you want to live, you do anything possible according to your attitude of mind (so we can understand why most women were prostitutes)

In my opinion, Elizabeth was a great, godly person that didn't deserve all that happened to her...

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Well, I think, that things started to turn wrong with her already in Sweden, when she had the stillborn chidl!

All the best
Jukka

[kensei]

Hello Kensei,

i don't and i will never blame Liz for her lies. Instead i really admire her because, although her horrible life, she wanted to live. She just was a bit more devious-clever than the others, thinking some more ways that helped her living. Besides those lies didn't harm anyone... Just try to understand her psychology... When you want to live, you do anything possible according to your attitude of mind (so we can understand why most women were prostitutes)

In my opinion, Elizabeth was a great, godly person that didn't deserve all that happened to her...

In no way do I imply that Elizabeth deserved what happened to her. Not at all. None of the victims did. And even as I compare her to my former friend I am remembering a person who left me with a mixture of good and bad memories. It seems we are on a slippery slope when it comes to pathological liars- do we blame them for their lies, or accept that they are at the mercy of something not right in their brains? Emotion enters in and makes things difficult and confusing.

[YankeeSergeant]

The enigma

In no way do I imply that Elizabeth deserved what happened to her. Not at all. None of the victims did. And even as I compare her to my former friend I am remembering a person who left me with a mixture of good and bad memories. It seems we are on a slippery slope when it comes to pathological liars- do we blame them for their lies, or accept that they are at the mercy of something not right in their brains? Emotion enters in and makes things difficult and confusing.

To me Elizabeth Stride is a bit of an enigma. As I type this I am working on my novel about Jack the Ripper, specifically the chapter that deals with "Long Liz", She was dealt a harsh hand in life and didn't deal with it in perhaps the best manner. I don't see her as a particularly godly woman nor do I necessarily attribute evil to her motives. My portrayal of her (Please bear in mind I'm writing fiction) is that of a survivor and yes a bit or a dweller in fantsay but one who is also pragmatic. She was a liar and perhaps a rather adept one but I believe she lied to further her ends rather than compusively. I think she may well have wanted to be a better person but knew that her downward spiral would only end with death. In short, I see her as a bit of a fatalist. Neil

[Nino]

jurassic Liz

I agree, presumably she had to be a bit of a fatalist, just the way most of us should be after doing the life she lived.
It's difficult to draw what kind of personality she had, we haven't no such information, none the minimal, but the chronicles and part of resume from the inquiry about her murder. At this moment, we can work only principally upon the info she had registered at the Swedish parish and little further.
The same thing to reconstruct a Dyno Dna starting from mosquito fossil..

nb: TODAY is her 168th birthday (27.11.1843)

[Tom_Wescott]

Wow, Happy Birthday, Liz!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Nino]

Nevertheless I'm faithful a "rough" profile can be drawn.
When she came in London she was a foreigner, with no relatives and no friends, just the parish to give a support. Actually she was young (23) but her life in Sweden already was sunk in bad times: lost the mother, lost a child, lost the job and also "observed" by the Authorities.
We know she was wilful to engage a new life, far from home, so emergencing at less a reactive character and the curiosity to face the new challenges of a bigger, unknow and more complex world: London wasn't Torslanda nor Gothenburg.. Brava Liz!!
Her english life began well with a marriage and an employment, then a coffee-shop in Poplar... but things got worst again. She was 32 when felt in alcoholism and prostitution. Somehow we can be tempted to give a moral judge on her but her life was hard and she was trying to make it a lil' more comfortable.
I think she lay because she was in need, disillusioned of life and love. She was in need also to justify her misfortunes (with others and with herself), though she was scholarized and pretty.
Maybe she asked: "Why God sent me down here, to survive among the people of the Abyss"? Lies were a means by rescue a little more help and to absolve herself.
Maybe not, in fact she was a lost woman from the unfortunates. An old friend of hers from Poplar declared she was called "Mother Gum" because the funny look of her upper lip when laughing. So I think the personality of E.Stride (strong, shrewd and bitter) was enriched by an important character: she was able to laugh facing the bad days.

Happy birthday Lizzie!

[Hunter]

Hi Nino,

Thank you for you're thoughtful post and the reminder of Elizabeth's birthday... and welcome to Casebook.

[Nino]

Thank you, Hunter! I'm very new on ripperology but I'm reading much just from Elizabeth. And your surveys on her personality are the best ones!