Did jack kill liz stride?

[Sox]

I'm sorry, but the Unabomber blew people up, what has that got in common with the Whitechapel Murders? because I totally fail to see a connection. His twisted 'manifesto' is painful reading, the product of a clearly deranged mind and very similar to the pseudo- intellectual ranting of Mein Kampf.

You have started to talk about motives here so my question is, what motive could you possibly need, beyond those of the autopsies? These were sexually motivated crimes, this man was not out to make a political or social statement for goodness sake, he was killing women and committing vile acts of mutilation on their dead bodies. He leaves Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes exposed in public, for all the world to see....how much more than that would he need to gloat?

[corey123]

Sox,

I will not answer that question. It is an unneccisary one and if you read the question through, you will see I have no point in me believing he is similar.


Read what you see before you accuse people or don't even bother commenting.

Thanks

p.s I advise you study serial killer behavior a bit more. Have you heard of the Sadist? How much more would he need to gloat? As much as he wanted to.

[Sox]

More funny is the trouble you took to explain something more than obvious : that the GSG, without the piece of apron, does not refer to the murders.

Such an original and revolutionary thought would have deserved a new thread.
Why didn't you open one ?

Amitiés,
David

Apparently, you have an extremely short memory.....

...and that's why the GSG refers to the murder(s)

....and that was a mere one page earlier. Witty one liners are obviously not your forte'.

[Sox]

Sox,

I will not answer that question. It is an unneccisary one and if you read the question through, you will see I have no point in me believing he is similar.


Read what you see before you accuse people or don't even bother commenting.

Thanks

p.s I advise you study serial killer behavior a bit more. Have you heard of the Sadist? How much more would he need to gloat? As much as he wanted to.

First of all Corey, I did not 'accuse' you of anything. I asked what the Unabomber ( who at best was a sociopath) had to do with the Whitechapel Killer (whom you say is a sadist) because earlier you write.......

He is almost an exact copy of Jack the Ripper(your take on him anyway) only his killing technich and his motive would be different.

The two crimes are nothing alike, not in any way are they even remotely similar, and I had an honest curiosity as to why you advised someone studying the Whitechapel Murders to take a look at that case.

[corey123]

Sox,

If you can't understand the simpleness of what I wrote, then I am afraid this conversation may be too difficult as well.

Again, I wont explain the obvious.

Good night.

[DVV]

Hi Sox,

Apparently, you have an extremely short memory.....

Apparently only. Looks are deceiving at night.

....and that was a mere one page earlier. Witty one liners are obviously not your forte'.

No offense taken.

Amitiés,
David

[Ben]

I would think, if he WAS targeting the IWEC, he would have done more than slit her throat. He would be sending a message. He would have put the GSG at the gates of Dutfields yard and he would of made the most of the oppertunity

That may have been superfluous, Corey.

If the killer was responsible for both "double event" murders, then he murdered and disposed of his victims in very close proximity to two Jewish clubs - one at each venue, and a synagogue at Mitre Square. When taken in conjunction with the fact that the apron was disposed of in a well-known Jewish-occupied dwelling (with attendant graffiti if that was ripper-authored), then a reasonable circumstantial case can be advanced that the killer was seeking to take advantage of widespread anti-semitism that had gathered momentum with regard to the Whitechapel murders courtesy of the "Leather Apron" reports.

The act of taking advantage of an obvious scapegoat - whether in the form of an inidividual or a group - has proved popular with other serial killers. With Reginald Christie it was the obvious "fallguy" Timothy Evans, and more recently, Steve Wright posed one of his prostitute victims in the style of a crucifix after it was speculated publicly that the killer might ve a religious fanatic.

Hi Observer,

Long saw a Jew with Annie Chapman.

Well, she said she saw someone who looked like a foreigner, but since by her own admission, she only saw the man's back, any worth in that observation is all but eradicated.

Best regards,
Ben

[DYLAN]

Great post Ben, and sensibly thought out.


I agree with every word of it.

DYLAN

[Ben]

Thanks, Dylan!

Great to see you here, incidentally. Long time no chat.

All the best,
Ben

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Ben and Dylan, good of you to join us.

Regarding the Berner Street club, it was not a place where an average joe would pop in for a pint. In fact, they did not possess an alcohol or tobacco license, so any drinks sold would be on the downlow. The night of the Stride murder, the police tried to entrap them by asking to buy some tobacco and drink. The club members, not being idiots, refused sale and kept from going to jail. However, Martin is absolutely right in that a young immigrant Jew would likely be attracted to the rebelious nature of the men at the club, or maybe just to the fact that they were other "free-thinking" Jews. This is one of many reasons I feel very strongly that Israel Schwartz was associated with the club. This has not been proved by documentation yet, but could be someday if I find the time to persue it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sox]

Regarding the Berner Street club, it was not a place where an average joe would pop in for a pint.

Hiya Tom, sorry to labour the point, but what is the source of this information?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Sox, have you been following the thread? It was not a pub. It was a club with a distinct purpose.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sox]

Hi Sox, have you been following the thread? It was not a pub. It was a club with a distinct purpose.

So you keep saying, but having done the same research that you have, I can find nothing that tells me about the social strata of the place. You obviously know more about it than I do, and I never said it was a pub Tom. I am simply asking for the source that leads you to believe that this establishment was closed to everyone but socialist & anarchist members, and to a lesser extent Jews.

No clubs of this kind had to have a licence to sell alcohol Tom, not until the early 1900's, and they were springing up all over England at the time of the Ripper murders, and although the vast majority of them had grand titles such as the International Working Men's Educational Club, they were little more than a combination of pub/music hall. Almost all of them had political affiliations. In the years since 1888, many of these clubs have changed very little in regard to their organization, especially in the north of England (obvious exceptions being things like admitting women to all parts of the club) where tradition tends to have a firmer foothold.

This club may have a direct bearing in the death of Liz Stride, tracking her movements on a map it can be seen that perhaps she was heading directly for it, shrugging off men with a 'not tonight dearie'. So the question is, was this club the exclusive domain of members, or was it open to anyone? Because at 01:00am, Liz may have simply known that this was a place where she could get a drink.

[Tom_Wescott]

So you keep saying, but having done the same research that you have, I can find nothing that tells me about the social strata of the place. You obviously know more about it than I do

Lol. If we've done the same research, wouldn't we know the same? And yes, you had to have licenses to sell alcohol. That's why beerhouses (such as the Nelson) sold only beer. Liz preportedly spoke Yiddish (I'm not totally sure I accept this), so she may have been welcome there to an extent, but I would be surprised.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sox]

Sorry Tom, but you are quite wrong about the licenses, Clubs were not covered by the law until 1902...specifically,

For the purposes of section twelve of the M1Licensing Act 1872, and of sections one and two of this Act, the expression “public place” shall include any place to which the public have access, whether on payment or otherwise.

...was included to close the loophole these clubs exploited by claiming that they were private, members only, establishments.