Did jack kill liz stride?

[Cogidubnus]

"Possibly if he were interrupted he never had the chance to pose the body as he did the others?"

Very well. So, then, she was not posed. So not sure what that has to do with Jack?

Hi Lynn

Whilst it could be argued that placing the women on their backs was a necessary preliminary to mutilation I think it's possible that the killer got off on posing the women on their backs, legs apart, skirts raised when he left them. MJK offered an even better pose...after all the blood evidence did lead them to believe that the body was moved away from the right side of the bed to the centre. Or maybe it's just me being fanciful.

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

knees up

Hello Gareth. Thanks for clarifying.

I think they indicated she might have drawn her knees up?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

legs

Hello Dave. Thanks.

"I think it's possible that the killer got off on posing the women on their backs, legs apart"

Possibly. But he did not "get off" with Kate, surely?

"Or maybe it's just me being fanciful."

Well, I wasn't going to say anything. heh-heh

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Ive found Wess's and Eagles remarks at the Inquest quite interesting with respect to what they may have seen. We all know that both said they couldnt be sure "something" was on the ground near the open gates, but the London Time of Oct 2nd quotes Eagle as saying;

"It was rather dark and I cannot say for certain if anything was there or not. I do not remember whether I met any one in Berner-street when I returned to the yard, neither do I remember seeing any one in the yard."

I dont recall this snippet, because I didnt remember reading a transcript that states Eagle "could not remember".

Selective memory, or hedging his bets?

Cheers

[caz]

Selective memory, or hedging his bets?

Does it have to be one or t'other, Mike?

People rarely pay minute attention to such details (and that of course includes noting the exact time!) when nothing out of the ordinary is happening and they are going about their normal business. Nobody at the club was expecting to find 'another' woman murdered, right there in the yard. All Eagle is really saying here is that he didn't register anything or anyone at the time so has no information to offer.

Hutchinson is regarded as deeply suspicious for remembering so much, and now Eagle falls foul of remembering nothing, when there was apparently nothing for him to commit to memory.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

Individual Perspectives are always interesting, but it appears they hinder problem solving at times.

May I suggest, Mike, that it's your own highly individual perspective (with a small p), which creates many of the problems you are trying and failing to solve? I don't see how someone else's perspective should hinder your own efforts in that regard, particularly as most seem to find far fewer 'problems' with the Stride murder than you do. My perspective may not be the right one, but if it is, the case pretty much solves itself - no problem.

Love,

Caz
X

[GUT]

G'Day Caz

Hutchinson is regarded as deeply suspicious for remembering so much, and now Eagle falls foul of remembering nothing, when there was apparently nothing for him to commit to memory.

Too right!

[sdreid]

I suspect there was something unrevealed that caused police to be pretty sure that Stride was a Ripper victim; and something more than a prostitute with a cut throat. Perhaps the blade had a nick that left a particular mark in the cut or something like that.

[Tom_Wescott]

I suspect there was something unrevealed that caused police to be pretty sure that Stride was a Ripper victim; and something more than a prostitute with a cut throat. Perhaps the blade had a nick that left a particular mark in the cut or something like that.

There was a slight abrasion that followed the cut on the neck that you don't see mentioned in the press. And I'm not talking about the facial abrasion that turned out to be mud.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Regarding Morris Eagle, he had good reason to be careful in his testimony. The poilce were looking close at the club members with suspicion, and guess who was named by all inside as the last man to enter the building before the body was discovered. I still do not rule him out as BS Man, but I don't think for a moment he killed Stride. Perhaps just moved her roughly out of his way as he entered the yard.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Dane_F]

I have read through most if not all of these 220 or so pages and while I am completely new to this, one question has stuck out in my mind that I am hoping someone can help answer for me.

Why is it more believable that a copy cat killer struck on the exact same night within hours of JTR than it is believable that JTR got interrupted?

From my obviously new mind, which could be overlooking much, it seems based solely on odds that a copycat killer striking so close to a "real" JTR murder is far more unlikely than Jack doing the killing himself.

If we accept the murder of Eddowes then we have a man who is obviously in need/lusting for murder on the same night within hours of another murder which would fit if not all, at least the early stages of his MO. Leading to the belief of him being interrupted.

Would this not also fit with the excessive mutilation of Eddowes as man who is frustrated from previously being interrupted and releases his frustration on the next victim?

I'm sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere but it's a question that has stuck with me and I don't have a good answer for.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Dane

For what it's worth I echo your very sensible question...the simplest solutions are probably the more likely ones...

All the best

Dave

[pinkmoon]

What would the odds be of two separate murderers on the loose in the same area at virtually the same time time?

[Hunter]

Welcome to Casebook Dane. And my hat's off to you for wading through this long thread.

As far as your question is concerned... I believe presumptions have been made on both sides of the argument that have little to do with the evidence at hand... although many will proclaim that it does. In this field, a position is usually staked out before research is adequately done. And the simplest answer is not interesting enough.

[Dane_F]

Thank You Cog. I'm glad I'm not the only person who sees something as obvious.

Pinkmoon, I suspect the odds would be lower. Maybe if the first murder involved a gun or some other weapon I'd think the odds were higher. However the idea I seen mainly floated around was that of a "copycat" killing. To me, granted not having done the math on it, it would seem strictly from a probability standpoint same night, same area, within a couple of hours that greatly reduces the odds of two different people.

You do bring up an interesting point however. I will talk to some college math major friends of mine to see if there is an acceptable way to determine this probability.

Hunter, thank you. Maybe it is fresh eyes but I can honestly say I have no preconceived ideas of who I think did it. I can say with 100% that I'd be willing to be swayed in any direction given a valid argument. All I am doing now is simply trying to apply cold logic to each piece of the case I come across. Since I have no agenda it is really freeing to just accept the most logical explanation. I fear I might gain too much knowledge and become jaded. Lol