Elizabeth Stride ..who killed her ?

[Fisherman]

Tom W writes:


"I don't read you posts, I skim them."

...which is a pretty daft thing to do, since it makes you look totally ignorant. Plus, of course, it is rude - but that would not bother you, I take it...?

"I'm glad to see you're STARTING to listen to reason where Kidney is concerned."

Starting? It is the same stance I have had for as long as I can remember. It is the same stance that I offered in my dissertation on these boards. But of course, you would not know this - you just skim, donīt you?

"pray tell, who was Kidney's successor?"

Do you want name and address or will you settle for the shoesize only?
I think that a compelling case can be made for Marshalls man and BS man being one and the same, and if so, we have a man on stage that sociates with Stride twice on her last evening, once in a very friendly manner, small-talking and strolling with her. To me, he would be a good choice for the role of the successor.

As for Kidney, what I have been saying all along, and what I remain saying, is that he makes a viable candidate too - and I fully concur with AP that the deed carries quite a resemblance with many a domestic killing.

Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

...which is a pretty daft thing to do, since it makes you look totally ignorant. Plus, of course, it is rude - but that would not bother you, I take it...?

I know, I'm a lazy American and a horrible Casebooker.

As for Kidney, what I have been saying all along, and what I remain saying, is that he makes a viable candidate too - and I fully concur with AP that the deed carries quite a resemblance with many a domestic killing.

Don't let the fact that the crime scene evidence points AWAY from a domestic homicide get in the way of you agreeing with AP that it's a domestic homicide. And you think skimming posts makes ME look ignorant?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W writes:

"Don't let the fact that the crime scene evidence points AWAY from a domestic homicide get in the way of you agreeing with AP that it's a domestic homicide. And you think skimming posts makes ME look ignorant?"

I do, as a matter of fact. And when it comes to ignorant people who has voiced that the Stride killing looks like a domestic affair, I think we can count a guy like Stewart Evans in. And of course, if you feel that he could be pointed out a a bloke who skims things and forgets to do his homework, thatīs fine by me...

...but I am of the opposite opinion altogether myself.

The best, Tom!
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Who is Stewart Evans? I'm looking through my first edition A-Z and don't see him anywhere in here, so he can't be too important.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Did you find me in there?

Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Did Stewart write that it looked like a domestic murder, or did he write that he couldn't be sure it was a Ripper murder? And what does Stewart have to do with our discussion anyway? He's welcome to join in with his own firsthand opinions, but being wiser than myself, he's staying far, far away from these Stride/Fisherman threads.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

I only use him since you keep telling me that you consider my posts worthy of no more than a quick skimming. It is an old tactic, trying to belittle your opponent, and I donīt want the other posters around getting the impression that you are right to do so.
What Stewart did was to say on a documentary that the Stride killing "bears all the hallmarks of a domestic killing" if I remember it correctly. So, you see, your own assertions that the evidence points away from a domestic affair is refuted by one of the most experienced and knowledgeable Ripperologists - and, of course, by me too.
Thought Iīd add that in case you had skimmed it.

Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

I only use him since you keep telling me that you consider my posts worthy of no more than a quick skimming.

Only to those of us who've read you tackle the same debate a 100 times. To all others, I recommend a thorough read through of your posts, then a thorough read through of mine to help them make sense of the nonsense they just read.

It is an old tactic, trying to belittle your opponent, and I donīt want the other posters around getting the impression that you are right to do so.

No, it's an old tactic called honesty. I really do skim through a lot of your Kidney posts. Same with Perry Mason, since his are usually a mile long. I read for enjoyment, not headaches.

So, you see, your own assertions that the evidence points away from a domestic affair is refuted by one of the most experienced and knowledgeable Ripperologists - and, of course, by me too.

And by AP too, don't forget. No doubt Stewart is wondering if he shouldn't rethink that conclusion! And incidentally, since you didn't tell me which documentary you're paraphrasing, I can't exactly agree that you're correct.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom W:

"To all others, I recommend a thorough read through of your posts, then a thorough read through of mine to help them make sense of the nonsense they just read."

Anybody out here is welcome to make any sort of comparison and come up with a decision of their own, Tom. The thread about Strides bloodied right hand, for example, would give a good picture of how we argue, respectively, and what we use to ground our thinking on.
Admittedly, the more flamboyant and - shall we say - unorthodox thinking is offered by you.
Me, Iīm a sucker for good old fashioned facts. Teeeedious, ainīt it?

Fisherman

[Cap'n Jack]

What I always found quite amusing is a little game I used to play with pen and paper when waiting for a delayed flight.
I'd give strokes of the pen - a biro you will note - on the paper for witness statements, and other incidents directly associated with each Whitechapel Murder, and I'd always get something like this:

Emma Smith. //
Martha Tabram. ////
Mary Nichols. //
Annie Chapman. //
Elisabeth Stride. //////////////
Catherine Eddowes. /
Mary Kelly. /

That's not exact, at all, but I think you'll get my drift, that the murder of Stride stands out so much from the rest that it must be an isolated incident unrelated to the rest, and has more in keeping with a domestic incident rather that the antics of a rogue killer preying on women in areas of Whitechapel where he would not be witnessed.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi AP,

No clue at all what you're trying to say there. Not in the slightest. But we can make any of the murders domestic if we want to since they're all about the same. According to Andrew Cook, I guess they're all domestic!

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

You have to wonder why Kidney would have gone on to kill Liz after being seen by Schwartz. He could have just slapped her around at let it go at that.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

You've hit the nail on the head. Stride was not slapped around, yelled at, or manhandled, according to the medical evidence. She was taken to a dark corner where her throat was slit in one motion...no false starts as are almost always seen in knife homicides. Twas a practiced, emotionless hand what fell poor Liz Stride.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Natalie Severn]

To me the Stride murder makes sense as being one of the Ripper"s.
I tend to rely most on PC Smith"s account of seeing a respectable looking young man talking to a woman with a flower on her jacket at 12.30- 12.35, the man carrying a newspaper parcel.
I think this " respectably dressed" man was probably carrying the "tools"of his trade in this rather large parcel,and on his way home.I dont think he was a butcher dressed like that,in a dark suit and the rather up market "deer stalker" hat, and it leaves me thinking he could have been a "jobbing barber" ie one who worked at several barber shops part time.After the throat slitting ,then the urge to use one of those sharp knives again to mutilate another woman overcame him----but mutilation wasnt exactly an easy option in this relatively busy yard with people toing and froing ,so it makes sense that he had to get to another, quieter, place, nearby---- where he knew he could find another such woman soliciting, quite easily and therefore be able to fully indulge his urges with the knife.

It occurs to me as well that barbers seem to figure more than most in British murders.Sweeny Todd being the most famous.In the film with Johnny Depp ,Burton shows Todd gradually being overcome at the sight of his customers throats offered up for shaving-until overcome with blood lust when shaving one of his unfortunate customers he slits their throats----and then cant stop!

[Fisherman]

Tom W writes:

"no false starts as are almost always seen in knife homicides"

Fascinating! "Almost always", no less! Any statistics, figures...?

Fisherman