Rainfall in Berner Street

[Stephen Thomas]

I'm going over the various witness statements in the Stride murder and timings and suchlike. I would greatly appreciate any information regarding whether or not it was raining between 11pm and 1am that night, not including Packer's 'eating grapes in the rain' statement.

Thanks in advance.

[iris84]

These killers got no respect. Killing people on weekends when no weather reports are published!

Elizabeth Stride & Catherine Eddowes.
(report of the 29th September)
The spell of fine, bright weather which prevailed over the United Kingdom the greater part of this month was broken somewhat abruptly at the beginning of the present week. A more permanent disturbance is now at hand. A depression spreading over the country will probably cause a complete breaking up of the fine weather.
The forecast for the night of 30th September in London was:
South West to North West winds, light, colder with rain at times.
The actual weather experienced on the night:
Temperatures fell rapidly on this night, London was 16 degrees (F) colder than it was on the previous night. There was a fall of rain.

The Corn Trade (29th September):
‘The weather has been fine lately, but it is now warm and damp.’

The Cotton Trade (29th September):
‘The summer home trade, owing to the dull and wet weather has been most disappointing.’

Ok found this at the following address (archived casebook thread) http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4920/22806.html

The post is by A P Wolf. Hope this helps.

[Stephen Thomas]

Wow, Iris

That was lightning quick. Respect!

But between 11pm and 1am on Berner Street that night?

[iris84]

No idea. I've tried accessing the met office site, got on to that, tried to search it, and the page wouldn't load.

I think Pecker's account may be the closest thing we'll get, but with above post, it seems possible, maybe even probable.

Wasn't mud mentioned? Her being face down in wet mud when her body was found? Or have I imagined that?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Stephen. It rained between 11 and midnight, but possibly not for longer than half an hour. It was not raining after midnight or during the time of all the 'action', such as Schwartz, Diemschutz, etc. So Liz must have been someplace dry during the rain as her clothes would have still been very wet an hour or so later, had they become wet during the rain.

I apologize not being more specific right now, but I'm at work and must go by memory.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[iris84]

Right, from her time line:

"At the mortuary, Doctors Blackwell and Phillips stripped the body. Dr Blackwell conducted the post-mortem while Dr Phillips took notes. Johnston and Doctor Reigate were present during part of the autopsy.130

Rigor mortis was still thoroughly marked. there was a small amount [mud] on the right side [jacket], the left side was well plastered with mud. There was mud on the left side of the face and it was matted in her head."

I may be wrong, but the wouldn't the mud have needed to have been damp for it to plaster her coat? This would suggest rain, but not how recent.

[iris84]

Hi Stephen. It rained between 11 and midnight, but possibly not for longer than half an hour. It was not raining after midnight or during the time of all the 'action', such as Schwartz, Diemschutz, etc. So Liz must have been someplace dry during the rain as her clothes would have still been very wet an hour or so later, had they become wet during the rain.

I apologize not being more specific right now, but I'm at work and must go by memory.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Aha, well done Tom!

[Stephen Thomas]

I apologize not being more specific right now, but I'm at work and must go by memory.

Thanks, Tom

I was intrigued by your 'giant invisible umbrella' comment on another thread.

Another poster there said it stopped raining at 11pm.

I really am curious about this rain business.

Stephen

[perrymason]

I believe that the weather reports suggest that the rain stopped around 11-11:30pm, coinciding roughly with the ending of the meeting. That would be substantive rain, so perhaps it sprinkled somewhat as well. No reason to surmise that Liz would be wet, there is a pretty good time gap between some Stride Sightings, and around the time of the rains end.

I would imagine that on many meeting nights, according to the neighbors, that would be about the time "low men" started hanging about the yard, often till past 1am.

But the ground still was wet, otherwise she doesnt get mud on her skirt and her cheek, and her blood isnt assisted to flow to the drain.

Best regards all.

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks for that finding that, Iris.
The massive drop in temperature from the night before would seem to indicate a lot of rain on the night.
Short sharp showers are associated with a cold weather front.
You'd need a wide brimmed bonnet and a copy of the Star to weather it.

[Stephen Thomas]

Thanks for that finding that, Iris.
The massive drop in temperature from the night before would seem to indicate a lot of rain on the night.
Short sharp showers are associated with a cold weather front.
You'd need a wide brimmed bonnet and a copy of the Star to weather it.

Yes, AP

Iris sure is a star.

But who the hell, apart from Matthew Packer, said it was raining after 11pm....

On Berner Street.

[perrymason]

Yes, AP

Iris sure is a star.

But who the hell, apart from Matthew Packer, said it was raining after 11pm....

On Berner Street.

No-one that I can find Stephen.

Best regards

[iris84]

Yes, AP

Iris sure is a star.

But who the hell, apart from Matthew Packer, said it was raining after 11pm....

On Berner Street.

The autopsy mentioned the mud. For mud to cling to her, it would have still been damp. But again, the rain earlier could have been sufficient to keep the mud wet for a good while afterwards. I'll try the met office site again in the morning, but can't guarantee anything.

[Stephen Thomas]

No-one that I can find Stephen.

Thanks for looking, Michael!

I'm asking a sincere question here.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

And here's a sincere answer.

The Times, 1st October 1888—

"The body was still warm, and the clothes enveloping it were wet from the recent rain."

Regards,

Simon