The Berner Street Con(spiracy)

[FISHY1118]

Do all the scenarios you're aware of, involve broad-shoulders?

Coroner: There were no signs of any struggle; the clothes were neither torn nor disturbed. It was true that there were marks over both shoulders, produced by pressure of two hands, but the position of the body suggested either that she was willingly placed or placed herself where she was found. Only the soles of her boots were visible. She was still holding in her left hand a packet of cachous, and there was a bunch of flowers still pinned to her dress front. If she had been forcibly placed on the ground, as Dr. Phillips opines, it was difficult to understand how she failed to attract attention, as it was clear from the appearance of the blood on the ground that the throat was not cut until after she was actually on her back. There were no marks of gagging, no bruises on the face, and no trace of any anaesthetic or narcotic in the stomach; while the presence of the cachous in her hand showed that she did not make use of it in self-defence.

Can you see any signs of BS, in the coroner's summing-up?

Why don't scenarios posited for Stride's murder, start with the findings of the inquest, rather than ignoring them in favour of the story told by a man who was not even called to give evidence?

Very simple ,the assault and the murder were two separate incidents.

The level of force that BS man threw stride down cant be determined as to whether or not her clothes were torn .

The coroner is taking about the murder, not the assault on Stride. so Schwartz eyewitness account is valid . See simple .

[NotBlamedForNothing]

That's what I'm getting at. Was Stride clutching the cachous before, during and after the attack by "broad-shoulders?"

I can't imagine her stepping into a pitch dark yard with a stranger who's just accosted her.

I suppose one explanation is that broad-shoulders left momentarily and Stride thought the coast was clear. She went into the yard to freshen up, only for broad-shoulders to return and catch her off-guard.

But to be honest I don't feel comfortable with any of the scenarios posited for Stride's murder.

Do all the scenarios you're aware of, involve broad-shoulders?

Coroner: There were no signs of any struggle; the clothes were neither torn nor disturbed. It was true that there were marks over both shoulders, produced by pressure of two hands, but the position of the body suggested either that she was willingly placed or placed herself where she was found. Only the soles of her boots were visible. She was still holding in her left hand a packet of cachous, and there was a bunch of flowers still pinned to her dress front. If she had been forcibly placed on the ground, as Dr. Phillips opines, it was difficult to understand how she failed to attract attention, as it was clear from the appearance of the blood on the ground that the throat was not cut until after she was actually on her back. There were no marks of gagging, no bruises on the face, and no trace of any anaesthetic or narcotic in the stomach; while the presence of the cachous in her hand showed that she did not make use of it in self-defence.

Can you see any signs of BS, in the coroner's summing-up?

Why don't scenarios posited for Stride's murder, start with the findings of the inquest, rather than ignoring them in favour of the story told by a man who was not even called to give evidence?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

We have an Official Israel Schwartz one via Inspecter Swanson

So did the coroner. Who didn't summon him. Not exactly a vote of confidence in his story.

[Harry D]

Well as far as im aware we dont have any witness testimony to say after the first assault that it continued all the way into the yard. If that was the case then yes i agree, where was all strides yelling ,kicking, and fussing .? So doesnt that make my suggestion just about right ?

She was clutching her cachous the moment her throat was cut, im not sure maybe she clinched her hands tightly due to the sudden shock, trauma. And in death they stayed in her grasp. Just a thought .

That's what I'm getting at. Was Stride clutching the cachous before, during and after the attack by "broad-shoulders?"

I can't imagine her stepping into a pitch dark yard with a stranger who's just accosted her.

I suppose one explanation is that broad-shoulders left momentarily and Stride thought the coast was clear. She went into the yard to freshen up, only for broad-shoulders to return and catch her off-guard.

But to be honest I don't feel comfortable with any of the scenarios posited for Stride's murder.

[FISHY1118]

So not Israel Schwartz ones?

We have an Official Israel Schwartz one via Inspecter Swanson

[NotBlamedForNothing]

You know, the one ones that count , Inquest ones , not reporter ones

So not Israel Schwartz ones?

[FISHY1118]

You learn something new every day. Thanks Fishy!



Do you mean True Facts or Fishy Facts?

You know, the one ones that count , Inquest ones , not reporter ones

[NotBlamedForNothing]

You do now.

You learn something new every day. Thanks Fishy!

There almost sure to if they read the reports that dont fit the facts.

Do you mean True Facts or Fishy Facts?

[FISHY1118]

I wasn't aware we knew that




Otherwise people might end up believing the wrong thing

You do now.
.



There almost sure to if they read the reports that dont fit the facts.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Yet we know stride was killed in the yard at between 12.45am and 12.50am .

I wasn't aware we knew that

I wouldnt be reading to much into the Irish times report, in fact newspaper reports in general are to be taken with great caution.

Otherwise people might end up believing the wrong thing

[FISHY1118]

Was the yard really empty of everyone from inside the club, for 20 minutes?

Irish Times: Several members of the club, including the steward, stated that the yard adjoining the building had never been frequented by unfortunate women. The traffic there is constant, and continues almost all the night through.

Except on the night that Jack the Ripper was passing by, looking for a kill?

Yet we know stride was killed in the yard at between 12.45am and 12.50am . I wouldnt be reading to much into the Irish times report, in fact newspaper reports in general are to be taken with great caution.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

For me, the biggest mysteries of Berner Street will be why the killer decided to dispatch Stride if he was seen by Schwartz (and Pipeman?). At that point, all they've witnessed is a scuffle in the street. He could've cut his losses (so to speak) and moved on. Are we dealing with a disorganised killer with low impulse-control? Not according to many commenters on here.

Second of all, no one saw or heard the struggle or a scream as Stride's supposed killer manhandled her and forced her into a dark alley to slash her throat. Why would Stride still be clenching the cachous in her hand if she was being roughed up? The evidence suggests she had let her guard down, which conflicts with Schwartz's sighting.

Was the yard really empty of everyone from inside the club, for 20 minutes?

Irish Times: Several members of the club, including the steward, stated that the yard adjoining the building had never been frequented by unfortunate women. The traffic there is constant, and continues almost all the night through.

Except on the night that Jack the Ripper was passing by, looking for a kill?

[FISHY1118]

True enough. It is my presupposition that Stride was forced into the yard, as I cannot see a woman fleeing into a pitch-black alley to escape her assailant or going willingly. Again, if that's the case, why did no one else hear anything and why was Stride still holding the cachous?

Well as far as im aware we dont have any witness testimony to say after the first assault that it continued all the way into the yard. If that was the case then yes i agree, where was all strides yelling ,kicking, and fussing .? So doesnt that make my suggestion just about right ?

She was clutching her cachous the moment her throat was cut, im not sure maybe she clinched her hands tightly due to the sudden shock, trauma. And in death they stayed in her grasp. Just a thought .

[Harry D]

Your 2nd point isnt quiet correct tho , he didnt force her into a dark alley, he tried to pull he into the street but turned her around and threw her down . From that moment stride could have gotton up walked back into the yard where the killer followed her and cut her throat from behind . Just a thought .

True enough. It is my presupposition that Stride was forced into the yard, as I cannot see a woman fleeing into a pitch-black alley to escape her assailant or going willingly. Again, if that's the case, why did no one else hear anything and why was Stride still holding the cachous?

[FISHY1118]

For me, the biggest mysteries of Berner Street will be why the killer decided to dispatch Stride if he was seen by Schwartz (and Pipeman?). At that point, all they've witnessed is a scuffle in the street. He could've cut his losses (so to speak) and moved on. Are we dealing with a disorganised killer with low impulse-control? Not according to many commenters on here.

Second of all, no one saw or heard the struggle or a scream as Stride's supposed killer manhandled her and forced her into a dark alley to slash her throat. Why would Stride still be clenching the cachous in her hand if she was being roughed up? The evidence suggests she had let her guard down, which conflicts with Schwartz's sighting.

Thats a very good question HarryD , Excellent infact.

1st point Maybe he had to.

Your 2nd point isnt quiet correct tho , he didnt force her into a dark alley, he tried to pull he into the street but turned her around and threw her down . From that moment stride could have gotton up walked back into the yard where the killer followed her and cut her throat from behind . Just a thought .