Possible theory about BS man

[Mrs Darrell]

Is it possible that he was a pimp? I don't know how prevalent pimps were at that time or whether it was worthwhile to heavy the prostitutes, but maybe Liz had strayed into a territory where he worked the girls and he didn't like it? Would also explain Pipe man, if they were working together and give a possible motive for the murder (if she isn't one of JTr's).

Has this been debated already?

[c.d.]

Hi Mrs. Darrell,

Yes, this has been discussed before. The conclusion was that if a street prostitute in Whitechapel had to share her earnings with a pimp both of them would starve. There just wasn't enough money to make it practical for either party.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mrs. D, it's funny you say that, because a person I consider to be a prime suspect is Charles Le Grand. He showed up in Berner Street the day following the murder and 'found' Matthew Packer and led him to give false evidence about a suspect. Very suspicious behavior. He passed himself off as a private detective, but in reality he was a pimp who had a history of picking a street he wanted his woman to 'work' and then proceeded to abuse every other prostitute on the street, going so far as to turn them in to the police, so that he could empty the street for his woman. He would pay his thugs to follow, harrass, and physically abuse these women. It's not too farfetched that what Schwartz saw was Le Grand (Pipeman) and one of his thugs (BS Man) at work that night.

I'm finally (but slowly) getting back to writing and hope to publish something soon on Le Grand. In spite of me, it should make for good reading.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Malcolm X]

I'm finally (but slowly) getting back to writing and hope to publish something soon on Le Grand. In spite of me, it should make for good reading.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

what do you mean, ``in spite of me``?............you're not as bad as Dan Norder yet you know

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks for that, Mal. But if my essays in RN were readable, some credit must go to Dan for his editorial skills.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra A]

He passed himself off as a private detective, but in reality he was a pimp who had a history of picking a street he wanted his woman to 'work' and then proceeded to abuse every other prostitute on the street, going so far as to turn them in to the police, so that he could empty the street for his woman.

Hi Tom,
Are you suggesting that he was moving this same woman into the East End streets, or that he was working the same bullying tactics of his former West End days for a different, East End prostitute?

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm not suggesting anything, per se. Mrs D asked if it was possible that a pimp was moving these women (the victims) out to make way for his girls. Since Le Grand did this very thing (not sure what you mean by 'former' days, as though he'd given it up!) and showed up on the scene the next day, I thought it worth mentioning. Berner Street with not one, but two working men's clubs, would be prime territory for a guy like Le Grand.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[perrymason]

Its an interesting angle to explore, and for me, Im not sure if this isnt perhaps some kind of extortion that local gangs participated in. Scare and intimidate Unfortunates to turn over their earnings....or, as we perhaps see in evidence with Annie, take what jewelry they have on them.

What doesnt add up is if they were also the Ripper killer (s)...because the acts that Jack performed were not just simple murders, other than Liz's. And in at least 3 Canonical cases, we have reason to believe they died broke. Polly had earned and spent bed money a few times, and was broke, Annie was soliciting while sick, and seemingly unsuccessful until she picks up Jack...and Kate was released from jail without money, and died within 45 minutes. Mary was given some coins by Maria...we dont know how much or where that went...and Liz had earned 6d cleaning rooms, of which 4d covered her bed.

She chose not to pay for it though, and it wasnt on her person.

Cheers all.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Michael. Presumably, a robber - even the great Jack - wouldn't know if someone had money on them or not until he asked them.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Malcolm X]

it is an interesting theory.......... kill prostitutes............scare the others off the streets.........get rid of the competition....put your own women in.

the trouble is the Ripper looks so much more than this type of person, he looks like a heavy duty ``genuine`` serial killer, rather than a street pimp turned violent killer.....but who knows!

The Times described Le Grand in 1891 as a �tall, well dressed man of military appearance�. His age in 1888, if was correctly given, would have been 35.

[Debra A]

I'm not suggesting anything, per se. Mrs D asked if it was possible that a pimp was moving these women (the victims) out to make way for his girls. Since Le Grand did this very thing (not sure what you mean by 'former' days, as though he'd given it up!) and showed up on the scene the next day, I thought it worth mentioning. Berner Street with not one, but two working men's clubs, would be prime territory for a guy like Le Grand.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I was just interested in what angle you were taking with it, that's all.
By 'former days' I meant that previously his activities of this type were concentrated on the West End and involved a 'higher class' of prostitute.
You kept mentioning 'his woman' so I was wondering if you thought she was involved at all.

[Tom_Wescott]

Just for the record, I don't for a minute think that IF Le Grand was the Ripper or the killer of Stride, that his sole motive would have been to clear the streets of prostitutes so he could pimp his women. The guy was a verifiable sociopath, so his motives would have been many.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

By the way Debs, I planned on PMing you, but I'm intending to share the byline on my essay with you since you did a whole heap o' research. That being the case, I'd love for you to be involved in the writing/editing process. You'd be wise not to put your name on something I had sole control over.
~~~

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Malcolm X]

Just for the record, I don't for a minute think that IF Le Grand was the Ripper or the killer of Stride, that his sole motive would have been to clear the streets of prostitutes so he could pimp his women. The guy was a verifiable sociopath, so his motives would have been many.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

yes he was pretty screwed up, i just did a very quick read on him..his Sociopath personality is very similar to G.Chapman...

[Tom_Wescott]

You ain't read nothin' yet.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott