Those Damned Cachous

[Malcolm X]

Even Ivor Edwards didn't like talking about it in too much detail either, and he's a bloke i really admire

[Tom_Wescott]

There's a billion threads about Stride's candidacy as a Ripper victim, so let's try to keep this one about the cachous and what we can infer from it.

The foreman of the inquest and Dr. Phillips had the following exchange:

The Foreman: Do you not think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?

Dr. Phillips: That is an inference which the jury would be perfectly entitled to draw.
While not committing himself, it's clear that Dr. Phillips did not think the cachous would have maintained the same appearance that he witnessed with his own eyes had Stride been thrown from the ground. I'm inclined to agree that if Stride were in fact thrown to the ground by BS Man, she was not holding the cachous at the time. What are your thoughts?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Malcolm X]

i think she met someone else later on, or was waiting for someone from the club; he came out and killed her and then shot back inside, i'm not sure she's a Ripper victim anymore.

me and Perrymason tried to suss it out on the other thread.....the only things that made sense were somebody else killed her and ``i'm fed up with this thread, i'm off downstairs for a drink and a ciggy

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Hi M&P,

Do you think she was caught off guard by the BS man?

c.d.

Caught off-guard, almost surely, but given BS man roughed her up previously, I doubt he was the perpetrator. Unless he sneaked up behind her in that yard to finish her off or something, but that seems a little bit cartoonish the way that scenario plays out in my mind's eye. ;p

I got no idea who the killer was now, I always assumed BS man, but now... I just don't know. Stride's is a mysterious death, huh?

[c.d.]

Hi M&P,

Do you think she was caught off guard by the BS man?

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

My point is that they weren't inside a paper packet and then wrapped in tissue. The tissue would be superfluous, and as I've pointed out, the cachous were open in her hand inside the tissue paper, which is why they fell out so easily when Dr. Blackwell examined her.

She would not have been holding the cachous when BS Man pushed her down or else she'd have skinned knuckles. I'm rather surprised she wasn't skinned on her palms from the fall, considering she would have fallen on stones. That's one of the factors that makes me wonder if she ever fell at all.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I think she was caught completely off guard, and her clenched hand proves that because once she was killed, her hand would have remained that way, and rigor would have set in on the clenched muscles...Also, as one fights for air, fights to breathe...muscles would tense up and would continue to do so until she died...

That's exactly what I thought.

[c.d.]

Hi Tom,

When I said loose, I meant scattered on the ground.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

The cachous were loose inside the tissue paper. Abraham Heshburg could see the individual pieces clearly and estimated there to be 6 or 7.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Hi Caps,

I agree that she probably was caught completely off guard. Do you think that would have been the case if the BS man was her killer?

c.d.

[cappuccina]

I think she was caught completely off guard, and her clenched hand proves that because once she was killed, her hand would have remained that way, and rigor would have set in on the clenched muscles...Also, as one fights for air, fights to breathe...muscles would tense up and would continue to do so until she died...

[c.d.]

Hi Cap,

Thanks for that. It would still seem the issue is how did they remain in that state if she was killed by the BS man?

c.d.

[cappuccina]

Hi CD,

I believe the words were "a small packet of cachous wrapped in tissue paper"...meaning, the cachous were in a paper packet (like garden seeds come in, which was then wrapped in tissue paper...)

So, they were neither in a "bag", nor "loose"...

I suspect they were in something like this...



and that packet was then wrapped in tissue...now, the cachous could have still spilled out if she had previously opened the packet because it is just paper, or if it were ripped...



Now, these cachous, which I have actually purchased, and have been around at least since 1890, come in a metal "packet", but would be more expensive, so I doubt that she had purchased cachous in a stronger container like this...



Tom, your Cachous research "stinks"! LOL

[c.d.]

Hi Tom,

I thought it was a bag so I stand corrected. If it was just thin paper you would expect it to be torn even more easily and the cachous scattered.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi CD. I don't imagine she was holding the cachous when BS Man attacked her. You're probably familiar with my theory on the matter since you were around when it was discussed previously. The cachous was actually wrapped in a thin tissue paper, so it wasn't even in a bag.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott