Why?

[Guest]

Hello all,

First off Id like to wish everyone a Happy and Healthy Holiday and a promising New Year. Feel free to post a similar message while you make your point if you like, this can be informal.

I have a question,.. for anyone who might help me...

The Inquest into the death of Elizabeth Stride began on October 1st, Coroner Wynne Baxter presiding. It was adjourned until the 2nd.....and on the 2nd, it was adjourned until the 3rd,...and on the 3rd it was adjourned until the 5th,...and on the 5th it was adjourned until Ocotber 23rd, when it is completed.

Catherine Eddowes Inquest, Coroner langham presiding, is opened on October 4th, and completed on October 11th.

Why is Elizabeths Inquest delayed, and even more interestingly, why is it only delayed a day the first 2 times....was there imminent investigation news that would warrant a delay of only 24 hours.. twice in a row, then only increase by an additional 24 hours the next adjournment period?

It seems to me that something related directly to Strides death was vexing for the police. Was it Schwartz'z statement...were they vetting him?

edit: I realize that there are simple external factors that impacted some of the adjournments, like Packer, and Wess and Goldstein, and even a Kidney one at the start...what Im wondering aloud is if there might be something that they felt was pivotal to the Inquest outcome,... which would be interesting since we know going in it almost certainly will be "willful death by person or persons unknown". Why delay it in that manner unless they were investigating something that might actually name the killer of Stride.

Any thoughts?

Best regards and Holiday wishes

[Howard Brown]

Mike:

Just a guess here,but since the murders and inquests transpired in different "sectors" ( Met & City) and because of Baxter's known propensity for stretching inquests "out" so to speak, that that may have had a part in the delay in Stride's inquest's conclusion.

Later

How

[perrymason]

Mike:

Just a guess here,but since the murders and inquests transpired in different "sectors" ( Met & City) and because of Baxter's known propensity for stretching inquests "out" so to speak, that that may have had a part in the delay in Stride's inquest's conclusion.

Later

How

Hi Howard,

I guess what intrigues me is that the delays were initially only 24 hours, then 48 hours....its that short time window that makes me interested in whether the investigation warranted and urged the short term delays by virtue of its imminent news pending or something that could conceivably alter an expected verdict of "willful murder" by an unknown.

As I added, we do have perhaps a 24 hour delay given based on Packers story, and I dont believe Wess comes into the Station with Goldstein until Tuesday night....who is after all our stereotypical suspect with the Gladstone bag, ...Im just trying to understand what they were hoping to accomplish by delaying the proceedings.

And I do feel that Schwartz may have eventually been thought of in much the same way Hutchinson was by the authorities.. less than 3 days after he gives his story. Without Schwartz, they either had a Socialist Jew or somone unknown like a "Jack", but it would also keep Kidney in the potential loop.

Im wondering if they were looking at Club members and Kidney specifically.

Cheers Howard.

[Howard Brown]

Dear Mike:

You may be correct about the authorities checking out the IWEMC fellows more thoroughly,I don't know.

All I do know is that on the night of Stride's murder, these men were searched within the IWEMC building and undoubtedly queried as to their movements on that evening. They objected to it and mention of this objection is within a contemporary newspaper...damn if I can remember it off the top of my head though.

[YankeeSergeant]

inquest

Perry and all:
Happy holidays to everyone and yourself. In quickly perusing The Ultimate Jack the Ripper Companion (Evans and Skinner) it appears that on the days mentioned the inquest did depose witnesses and take testimony. Adjopurnment then as now may have been the result of many factors.
It does appear that the first adjournment (Oct. 2) was because Elizabeth Stride had not been identified yet (Evans and Skinner p. 159). On October 3rd, the coroner took testimony from 4 witnesses including PC Lamb. So in effect, they were not adjourning without doing anything. Sometimes the simplest explanation will suffice. It is very possible there were other cases the coroner had to address. I don't see anything particularly sinsiter about the adjournments. Great post though, Perry.

[perrymason]

Thanks for the posts Howard and Yankee Sargeant,

I wonder if it is recorded how long these sessions actually lasted each day that they were adjourned, I do get your point Yankee that they were "moving ahead" as it were.

On the club members, I dont recall the publisher either Howard, but I do recall that approx 28 men, and Mrs Diemshutz were questioned, as well as the cottagers who were awake at the time. Their hands and cuffs and shoes were checked for blood...likely by poor lighting, and they did enter and search the club.

Heres something that may hold water...Mrs Diemshutz was supposedly doing the washing up in the kitchen at the time the murder occurred...how easily could a club man have taken a knife from the dishes, and plunked it back into soapy water when finished. And we know one that came into the club via that side door at 12:40pm.

Not to say I think he is suspicious.....ah hell, I do think he is. Why does he bring a date home then return to the club?

Best regards chaps.

[YankeeSergeant]

Knife

Easy to take. I rather suspect that putting a bloody knife in the dishwater while Mrs. Diemschutz was there would have been a bit more tricky. As to the gent having the date and then going to the club, that can be simnply explained by the fact that he may not have been sleeping with her (This was Victorian era London after all). Or they had a fight and he returned to the club for drinks after. The problem with the records is that they don't say how long the sessions lasted which makes it hard to say if they were normal sessions. Llike everything else about this case, there are not truly solid facts other than as many as six and as few as three women were killed by someone wielding a knife and they were "Soiled Doves". Hope your holidays are all you wish for.