Did "Jack" hide here?

[Mike Covell]

During transcribing a newspaper report I found the following,

Berner-street is a quite thoroughfare running from Commercial-road down to London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway. At the entrance to the court are a pair of large wooden gates, in one of which is a small wicket for use when the gates are closed.

The Hull News Saturday October 6th 1888

Is it possible that the murderer of Elizabeth Stride hid behind the gate when Diemshutz entered the yard, and escaped from either beind the gate or through the "wicket", when Diemshutz entered the club?

A wicket is a small gate, used by people, to gain access to a building or yard before the main gates are open. They are still fairly common, with garages and other service related industries, still using them.

[Fisherman]

Hi Mike!

Diemshutz said that the gates were wide open as he drove his cart into the yard, and I believe that since the yard was a narrow one, the gates would have been built so as not to obstruct the passage more than necessary. They were probably hung on the hinges in such a fashion so as to leave no space behind them when swung up fully. Your picture goes very well to show what I mean; if you take a closer look you will see that the gate seems to sit on the wall like a stamp on an envelope. No hiding room behind that gate if it was swung open to the full!

The best,
Fisherman

[Mike Covell]

Afternoon fisherman and thanks for replying.

I have worked around a few of these gates and they are usually hanging from thick upright posts, driven into the ground, and bolted to the wall.

I was thinking that these would have brought the gates away from the wall, almost enough to squeeze a man down the side.

[Fisherman]

Hi Mike!

If you take a look at the contemporary sketches and also if you wiew Philis photo of the yard, you will notice that it seems that the post holding the gates is part of the wall, more or less, only protruding from it by a few inches.
The question of the Ripper hiding behind them gates have been up before. I think the answer must be "no" if the gates were fully open. If not, then there may have been space enough, but the killers body would have been visible to anybody looking in the direction where he would have been standing.

The best, Mike!
Fisherman

[Steve S]

Sorry...Sudden vision of Jack getting squashed by a gate.........
Steve

[Julius]

I suspect that, if the Diemschutz had been able to attach the gate to the wall as usual, then there would not have been space to hide behind but, if he went directly into the club on discovering the body then he might have overlooked this allowing the killer enough space to hide and the opportunity to escape before Diemschutz returned with more men. Also, it was so dark that Diemschutz only realised there was a body when he lit a match so he might not have noticed if the gate was fully open or slightly ajar.

[perrymason]

Hi Mike,

Its my understanding that the "wicket", or "window", was built into the left gate as you looked from the street. So he would have had to cross the open space to get to the "wicket" side.

Liz is seen near the gates with BSM at approx 12:45am. Fanny is at her door off and on from 12:46am to 1am, and only sees Goldstein at approx 12:55am. That would lead one to conclude that since it is so near to her murder time, she and perhaps BSM entered that yard, being out of sight by Fanny during that time. Eagle and Lave testified that the yard was empty at 12:40am.......so technically, the only entrance time for a hiding Jack is from 12:46 until approx 1am, ....but we know that at around 12:46 she and BSM are not loitering outside the gates, Fanny doesnt see them,....so during that time Liz and BSM have likely entered the yard out of street view. For Jack to get in, BSM has to leave,....for which we have no witnessed departure, and Liz has to stay put, and quiet, in the yard, for when Jack enters.

I think the reality is Mike if Jack was hiding there, it would have been in the back of the yard somewhere, and he would have to have been there for sometime. To then leap out, cut once and leave? It doesnt sound Jack like at all....nor does her death appear as if caused by a "Ripper"....so for me anyway, Jack is either a club member who comes out the side door to get her, or BSM is now a "Sloppy Jack", or BSM kills Liz cause she pissed him off.

Number 3....The drunk with a knife and a hot temper is my bet.

Cheers Mike, all

[Julius]

Its my understanding that the "wicket", or "window", was built into the left gate as you looked from the street. So he would have had to cross the open space to get to the "wicket" side.

There is an illustration of the gates, as seen from the street, in the picture above. The wicket looks to be built into the right hand gate.

[Fisherman]

The right hand side, as seen from the street it is, gents. Some descriptions speak of the left hand side, but the reason is simple - those speak of the placement of the wicket as seen from inside the yard!

The best, all!
Fisherman

[drstrange169]

Hello Mike,

...escaped from either behind the gate or through the "wicket"...

Hiding behind the gate is a possibility but doors generally open inward from a street, so it would only be possible to escape though the "wicket" if the gate was ajar at least the distance of the wicket's opening swing arc.

Thanks for your time.

[perrymason]

Hi Julius,

I did see the wicket sketched into the right gate, but as Fisherman mentioned, there are descriptions that place the window on the left door. It may be as Fisherman said regarding POV, they were speaking about the gates from the yard. Regardless, it wouldnt be a viable escape route due to the cart and pony and Diemshutz entering and effectively blocking the entranceway.

There is a press account that mentions a lock broken in a hayloft in the back of the yard....similar to the broken lock to the privy in Hanbury Street, with similar implications. But he has to get from the back of the yard, which Wess passed through, pass the entranceway to the club while not being seen by some cottagers opposite who were awake at the time, slip into the nook created by the shadows behind the door, and wait it out. That does not sound like the same approach taken by the man in Bucks Row, nor Hanbury Street, and if Lawende saw him later with Kate, neither does that man sound like a "lurker".

To account for the lack of struggle by the victims, and the apparent lack of noise created, it would have been a blitzkrieg attack, while the victims guard was down. A woman standing alone in a dark yard after midnight does not have her guard down, and would likely be vocal at any sign of trouble. To seize them effectively, he has to be close to them....that can be accomplished by his apparent "client" role with other Canonicals, ...to pounce from the shadows he would have encountered struggle and noise, and we know he didnt use anaesthetics or traceable drugs.

In the case of Liz Stride, there is a man known to be near her in what appears to be the role of a surly potential client just before she dies, ....and there is really very little else in evidence to suggest either a hidden man, or a suddenly appearing man as her probable killer.

Best regards