Been here before, c.d, and I feel certain that you will recognize my answer: There is no need at all to believe that he was set on beating up on her. The violence she was subjected to outside (or inside if Jon Guy is right) the gates, may well have amounted to nothing more than them pulling in opposite directions, only to loose their grips.
And if we imagine a repentful man, who is set on getting his woman back (Kidney or not), we must not imagine someone who starts punching her in the face, must we?
One sentence on her behalf: Get out of my life! ...may have been what resulted in that single cut, c.d!
The best,
Fisherman
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Fisherman,
You completely misunderstand me. I'm saying that Stride emptied her pocket of coins for her robber/killer. This is how the cachous packet got lodged between her thumb and forefinger, just as paper money might when digging in the bottom of your pocket for change. Or a thimble. Or maybe a portion of envelope. Hmmm...
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
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Hi Fisherman,
You certainly present a viable option although I have never been too fond of the idea of Kidney as her killer or any other lover for that matter. It seems to me that if it was some sort of lover's quarrel that ended with her having her throat cut, it would have been proceeded by arguing and then a few good shots to her face before taking out the knife. It is the absence of evidence that she was hit in the face that makes me question that scenario although it is certainly possible that her killer went right for his knife.
c.d.Leave a comment:
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C.d!
In response to the question asked, I usually recommend people to imagine what they would do if they were at a social dinner party, when their wife suddenly pinched them in their bottom.
Not cry out at the tops of their voices, I think. No, they would keep it low but sharp: "Not NOW, honey!"
...and in response to Toms suggestion that he may have used a robberīs scenario: Perhaps. But I think that if we take a look at Nichols, for instance, she was so drunk that he must have realized that she would perhaps not react rationally to such a threat, instead yelling away.
When it comes to Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes we do not have to suggest the faked robbery - the ordinary suggestion that he came along - or took them along - for reasons of paid-for sex, seems to provide him with his opportunity of subduing them and cutting their necks anyhow. Suggested sex, interrupted by a hand placed over mouth and nose, a quick move to get them of balance, and swooosh - itīs over.
Stride, that is something else. She was manhandled before the strike, whether performed by BS man or someone else, and would have been on her guard. Therefore I say that a perspective where the man who takes her into the yard - or is taken into it by her - is someone she is aquainted to, is something that explains both the lowered voice AND the fact that she took her cachous out. What robbery victim asks her robber to put the knife away for a second to allow her to nibble away at a pack of cachous?
The best!
FishermanLeave a comment:
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Hi all,
I think Liz is displaying the classic moves of a woman guarding her personal space,when she is waiting around.
I also think the cachous didn't belong to her,which is why she is still holding them,and they were handed to her in the moments before he struck.Allowing him to move much closer,as a stranger,within a few seconds of meeting her.
Also allowing those few moments of distraction for him to strike.
I think they all grabbed hold of his coat or jacket,which would be a natural reaction.
He has to approach to rob,which will eat into the time he has to kill and mutilate..
Just some ideas.Leave a comment:
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Hey Up MontyOriginally posted by Monty View Post
A bloody farthing and a pipe loaded with `baccy was found under Alice McKenzie.
Wasn`t there a couple of items lying by Eddowes hand, including the thimble, suggesting it had fallen there and she did not have it on her finger ?Leave a comment:
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Newbie
That's right, a newbie. By the way what were you doing in August 1967 when I photographed the Ripper murder sites?Originally posted by Monty View PostLeave a comment:
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Monty,
Hello old friend. Did I not say Eddowes' thimble was next to her hand? Makes more sense to me that she was holding it than wearing it. Chapman's belongings MAY have been arranged, but they first must have been laid on the ground or they fell there. From the evidence, it seems to me more likely that her rings were wrenched from her fingers while she was alive and conscious as opposed to after. Not only were her rings missing, but also her medicine and lotion, which may have been taken away by her killer.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
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No Offence
No offence (offense for US readers) taken Tom. However, I'm not sure what to do about all this unpublished information I have. I think that I shall take a leaf out of Macnaghten's book and burn it all.Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View PostLeave a comment:
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A newbie, like you Stewart.
Tom- Chapmans items were placed. Eddowes thimble was laying off her hand, it would seem she was wearing it, and her items were upon her.
MontyLeave a comment:
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Yes, and you proved absolutely horrible at suppressing evidence. How many books are you up to now? If I didn't know better, I'd say you had a passion for uncovering and sharing information, but then I don't wish to offend you.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
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Right
Ah right, now I remember. Getting old don't you know...Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View PostI think we were in a cabal together once, Stewart. We share a similar interest in suppressing information and manipulating the facts as I recall.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
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I think we were in a cabal together once, Stewart. We share a similar interest in suppressing information and manipulating the facts as I recall.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
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Who?
Who is this Tom Wescott guy anyway? I seem to recall the name from somewhere.Leave a comment:
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Earlier today on a related thread, I replied to Caz who asked why Liz was holding the cachous. Here's my thoughts on that and it should also answer why I think it's possible that Liz and at least some of the other women did not realize they were in mortal danger:
Hi Caz. I believe the Ripper would use robbery as a ruse to assure the woman's silence once he got her alone. He held them at knife point and assured them that if they cooperated and remained silent they wouldn't get hurt. Pretty common and effective ruse. The girls were told to empty their pockets. This, I believe, is why Chapman's belongings were at her feet - she was standing when they fell. If I'm right, this would also explain the thimble next to Eddowes' hand and the cachous in Stride's hand - they were emptying their pockets and the Ripper taking their money. He subsequently killed them.
Yours truly,
Tom WescottLeave a comment:
Leave a comment: