Liz Stride: Why No Loud Cry?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Simon,

Yes, I actually wrote a bit about this fellow in one of my Ripper Notes essays. I'm embarrassed to say I'd now have to refer back to it to answer your question fully. However, a few newspapers referred to a Joseph Koster (Costa to the Times) who found the body, alerted club members, and made off to find a policeman. This is a muddled reference to Diemschutz (assumed by someone to have been a coster). I'm at work without my references so that's the best I can do for now.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Sam Flynn writes:

"Nah, Nats - more like Houdunnit."

Should take care of that one; thanks, Sam!

The best,
Fisherman

[Simon Wood]

Hi Tom,

You're the oracle when it comes to the Stride murder.

Do you know anything about this story from The Times, 1st October 1888?

"Conflicting statements are made as to the way in which the body was found, but according to one account a lad first made the discovery and gave information to a man named Costa, who proceeded to the spot, where almost immediately afterwards a constable arrived. The body was then removed to No. 40, Berner-street, which is very near to the now notorious Hanbury-street. These premises are occupied by the International Workmen's Club."

Regards,

Simon

[Sam Flynn]

Was he Houdini maybe?

Nah, Nats - more like Houdunnit.

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Fisherman,
Was he Houdini maybe?

[Fisherman]

In fact, Tom, you donīt know how many escape routes I think he had...

The best!
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't believe he had as many escape routes open to him as you think, Fish.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Possibly. But the distance from Nicholīs body to the schoolbuilding was a smallish one, and after that he was left with choices aplenty. I donīt share that feeling of yours that he was there, watching. I think he got out of there as fast as he could.

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

I overuse the word 'likely', as you should know. However, consider that the men were certain they saw no one else going up or down the street. Then they leave and PC Neil comes in almost instantly. From that point forward the street only became more crowded. When I realized this it was the first time I gave any consideration to the man who sauntered through the street unmolested shortly thereafter.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

"He likely watched them the entire time they examined the body."

Intriguing, Tom - but "likely"?

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Jon. It was more like 10 seconds. Robert Paul thought he heard her heart, so he was of the impression she was still alive. While I don't think that's the case, it seems Cross scared the Ripper away. Cross, according to his testimony, heard Paul coming from a pretty good distance. This tells us about how far the Ripper could have heard Cross coming. Enough time to take cover. He likely watched them the entire time they examined the body.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

" In any event, the Ripper appears to have been interrupted by Cross, as you well know. Or Lechmere as you call him"

Yes, Tom. And if he had was interrupted, then what does it show:
a
A/ That the Ripper cut first and rifled through the pockets later
B/ That the Ripper rifled through the pockets first, and cut later
or
C/ That the Ripper rifled through the pockets first, put the things back and then cut

Take your pick, Tom!

And the rest:

"Since there was no copycat at work, I'll consider this a rhetorical question."

Gutsy, Tom!

"Now, who would you say is behaving in an 'unfair manner'?"

You, Tom.

"Well, her hat was found by her hand, if you wanna get picky"

Thatīs the good thing about you, Tom; you never get boring!

The best,
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

In any event, the Ripper appears to have been interrupted by Cross, as you well know. Or Lechmere as you call him.

I think the Ripper had left Bucks Row ten minutes before Cross entered the street as Robert Paul said her hands and face were quite cold.

[Tom_Wescott]

If that, Tom, was a very good copycat, what would a victim on her back, neck cut to the bone, eviscerated, clothing disarrayed be? A very, very good copycat?

Since there was no copycat at work, I'll consider this a rhetorical question.

In defense of Glenn, I would say that he holds and has given expression to the wiew that the investigation of the Stride killing quickly turned into a Ripper hunt - not that it was so from the outset. These are things you know very well, but still try to exploit in an unfair manner.

You crack me up. You post a newspaper article specifically to make the point that the police gave consideration to the idea that Stride was not a Ripper victim. When I reference the same article on the same thread, you call it exploitation. Now, who would you say is behaving in an 'unfair manner'?

And what about Nichols? Why do we not have her belongings at her side instead of on her person?

Well, her hat was found by her hand, if you wanna get picky. In any event, the Ripper appears to have been interrupted by Cross, as you well know. Or Lechmere as you call him.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fisherman]

Tom Wescott writes:

" Either she was a Ripper victim or a very good copycat by a killer with impeccable timing. "

If that, Tom, was a very good copycat, what would a victim on her back, neck cut to the bone, eviscerated, clothing disarrayed be? A very, very good copycat?

In defense of Glenn, I would say that he holds and has given expression to the wiew that the investigation of the Stride killing quickly turned into a Ripper hunt - not that it was so from the outset. These are things you know very well, but still try to exploit in an unfair manner.

"I'm not so much convinced by Monty's argument as you are that these items (cachous, thimble, Chapman's variety) were all removed and placed into position after death."

And what about Nichols? Why do we not have her belongings at her side instead of on her person?

The best!
Fisherman