Israel Schwartz as a suspect?

[nicole]

Hi guys,

I am just pondering over the idea of Israel Schwartz being Liz Strides killer. Here is a guy who places himself outside Dutfields Yard at the precise time of the attack. Nobody can corroberate his story of the Broad Shoulders/Pipeman incident and he admittedly 'ran' from the scene.

What if, as in the case of George Hutchinson and MJK's murder, Schwartz came forward with his 'suspect' story to divert attention away from himself. "It wasn't me, it was the 'phantom duo' and if someone saw me running from the scene, immediately after the attack (and just as Louis Diemshutz was turning into Berner Street), it was because I was being chased."

He specifically said the Pipeman came out of the public house a few doors down from the IMWC, yet there was nobody in that public house came forward to identify the person who had left the pub.

His story seems odd to me...maybe there's a reason why.

Just a thought!

Nicole

[Bob Hinton]

Dis-similar

Hutchinson came forward, not because he wanted to but because he was seen loitering outside the lodging house.

Schwartz if your theory is right, was not seen by anyone, therefore would have no reason to come forward.

[nicole]

Hi Bob,

Hutchinson came forward, not because he wanted to but because he was seen loitering outside the lodging house.

In the case of Hutchinson, I do believe that Sarah Lewis's statement had an influence on his 'coming out'.

Schwartz if your theory is right, was not seen by anyone, therefore would have no reason to come forward.

But [I]he[I] wasnt to know that. Picture the scenario. Schwartz has just killed Stride. He suddenly realises that in his excitement he has failed to notice Diemshutz and pony enter Berner Street. Upon the delayed hearing of the oncoming party, Schwartz instintively legs it home. He lets the dust settle, and upon hearing of the events in Mitre Sq, he volunteers his info for fear of being later fingered out as having run from the scene and therefore wrongly being accused of being JTR.

sincerely

Nicole

PS. I'm not strongly considering Schwartz as Strides killer. I just like to exhaust every angle in order to close some doors, so to speak.

[Elias]

Hi nicole,

I think it would be strange of Schwartz to bring another person into the inquiry, Pipeman, if he did it. I can't remember if it's in Sugden's or Begg's book, but one of them makes a good case to suggest that the police tracked down Pipeman and eliminated him from their inquiries. If this was the case, Schwartz was offering up someone who could've witnessed him doing it, or was in on it with him. I can't see it myself.

[nicole]

Hi Bob,

Hutchinson came forward, not because he wanted to but because he was seen loitering outside the lodging house.

That's not entirely correct, Bob. You say it was "because he was seen loitering..." No. A person was seen loitering outside the lodging house. So, then Hutchinson voluntarily came forward with his 'dodgy' statement just in case he was later identified.

Schwartz if your theory is right, was not seen by anyone, therefore would have no reason to come forward.

Well, here's the thing...like Hutchinson, Schwartz didn't volunteer his statement until after a newspaper report that suggested that he might be identified at a later date. Keep in mind that this report is dated 2nd Oct but the meeting in question was held 1st Oct.

2 October 1888
The Scotsman

The club itself, which is next door to the large gate, was yesterday closed; but all the forenoon members and others who have special business there were admitted after knocking at the door. The committee of the institution held a meeting yesterday morning, at which the crime was talked over, and it was decided not to admit any stranger without the payment of a fee. This fee, the secretary explained, was to assist the propaganda. The committee, it seems, did not fix the amount to be charged, but, in reply to a question, the secretary said he thought 5s. would not be too much. In the course of conversation the secretary mentioned the fact that the murderer had, no doubt, been disturbed in his work, as about a quarter to one o'clock on Sunday morning he was seen - or, at least, a man whom some persons regard as the murderer - being chased by another man along Fairclough Street which runs across Berner Street, close to the club, and which is interesected on the right by Providence Street, Brunswick Street, and Christian Street, and on the left by Batty Street and Grove Street, the two latter running up into Commercial Road. The pursued escaped, however, and the secretary of the club cannot remember the name of the man who gave chase, but he is not a member of their body.

This changes things considerably.

sincerely
Nicole

[Chris]

Well, here's the thing...like Hutchinson, Schwartz didn't volunteer his statement until after a newspaper report that suggested that he might be identified at a later date. Keep in mind that this report is dated 2nd Oct but the meeting in question was held 1st Oct.

This story had earlier appeared in the Echo, on 1 October:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/echo/18881001.html

[nicole]

Hi Chris,

This story had earlier appeared in the Echo, on 1 October:

http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../18881001.html

Much apprechiated, Chris.

Nicole