Was Dutfields Yard Really Empty?

[harry]

Tom,
I certainly agree with you on the last part of the above post.

[Tom_Wescott]

Harry,

Even now in the digital age, you would expect many witnesses to be somewhat inaccurate in their timings. But in those times witnesses could be and WERE off by as much as an hour. Edward Spooner's timings, for instance, were atrocious. However, James Brown felt morally certain he had seen Liz with a man and we must remember that Liz Stride, unlike most other victims, was rather unique looking. She was dressed better than other women of the area and had that unique and memorable mouth. What's interesting to me is that if Brown did see Liz around his stated time, then the man she was with was quite possibly Pipeman.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Good Michael]

D'oh! Too subtle, Mike! Either that, or I'm slow this morning

Ah, but it's Friday evening for me. Only 4 classes more to teach and I have a 3 day weekend. If only there were someplace to go, or decent beer to drink. Still, days off are not to be dismissed lightly... much like a dung heap.

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

Of course they would, and I was joking. You knew that.

D'oh! Too subtle, Mike! Either that, or I'm slow this morning

[harry]

Tom,
Perhap's Brown,like many of the witnes's,could not give a time accurate to the minute,but a late night call might have well made hime aware of the approximate time,and the exactness of 12.45 a suggestion from an official source.
Like you I think Brown to have been honest.He states he could not be sure the woman was Stride,a statement which is in contrast with the detailed description's of some others including Schwartz,though again,with that individual,suggestion by others might have been a factor.
regards.

[The Good Michael]

Gareth,

Of course they would, and I was joking. You knew that.

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

Who would thoroughly search a dung heap?

Police, under orders, certainly would, Mike.

[The Good Michael]

They was a dung heap in Dutfields Yard. It wasnt empty.

The heap was searched by the way.

I thought it was a depression in the ground for refuse. If it was a dung heap, that is very different. If a body can look like a tarpaulin, how difficult is it for a person to mistake a crouching killer for a dung heap? Who would thoroughly search a dung heap? Not I. This may be the answer.

Cheers,

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

Harry,

Where Brown reported seeing the couple is actually no more than a 10 SECOND walk from Dutfields yard. I believe Brown was an honest witness, but I'm not sure he saw what he thinks he saw, or at the time he saw it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[harry]

Michael,
We have the words of Brown to consider also.He reported that Liz and a companion were in the intersecting street at 1245.It was however just a short walk from Duttfields yard,a couple of minutes in time,which raises a pertinent question.What of this man and where did he go.He could have accompanied Liz to Duttfield yard,and been hidden just inside,out of the gaze of both BS and Schwartz.With Schwartz gone he could have seen off the drunk,pipeman also departs,and she is left with a person who had so far shown no ill will.A person she can trust.
Possible?

[george chapman]

oh , I see; you're a teacher..................

[Monty]

Tom,

Nor any exclaimations worthy enough.

Monty

Hello all,

Very few posts dealing thread specific here, so Ill break tradition and do just that.

The yard was testified as being empty first by Wess...the time makes it relatively unimportant...the second is Lave, and the third is Eagle. Lave is in the yard for about 10-20 minutes, until 20 to 1, which is when Eagle says he entered the yard from Berner. They dont see each other. Some cottagers were awake, they saw nothing though their windows almost faced Liz's death site. Fanny Mortimer sees no-one outside the gates from just about when Schwartz and Pipeman leave at approx 12:46, until almost 1 when she sees Goldstein. No-one is seen outside the gates after 12:46...and no-one is seen in the yard at 12:40. But Liz is outside the yard near the gates when BSM and Schwartz enter, so we must assume that she arrives there after 12:40, so misses being seen by Eagle and Lave, but before 12:45, as she is there to be seen by Schwartz.

If the witnesses tesified honestly, its very likely the yard was empty until Liz enters it sometime after 12:46. BSM may well have been with her. There is no evidence that says he left before she is killed.

Best regards all.

[Tom_Wescott]

I'm with you there, Montague. Just a minute ago I caught myself agreeing with AP Wolf on something. Just not enough hours in the day any more.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Tiredness Tom,

Some of us still have to hand in their homework to teach and are up all hours to get it done.

Monty