A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[RockySullivan]

Weren't most of them inside the social club when the actual murder took place though?

Anyone in the club potentially could have slipped into the yard, but it's very unlikely the killer went back into the club especially if he was bloody right?

[gnote]

Anyone in the club potentially could have slipped into the yard, but it's very unlikely the killer went back into the club especially if he was bloody right?

Slashing her throat, coming back to the club and getting back into the festivities like nothing happened? Possible yes, but not likely.

[pinkmoon]

Weren't most of them inside the social club when the actual murder took place though?

Yes but before the police arrived people had started to drift into the yard so when police arrived they took their names like I said before that list if it was ever to be found would make interesting reading we would probably be disappointed though.

[Archaic]

Jari Posted Comment re: Shawl Research On Edwards' Site

Hi everyone. There are new comments from Jari ron Russell Edwards' website. Dated 29 June 2015.

The heading is: Shawl that nailed Polish Lunatic Aaron Kosminski and the Forensic expert that made the critical match

http://www.thejacktherippertour.co.uk/shawl-that-nailed-polish-lunatic-aaron-kosminski-and-the-forensic-expert-that-made-the-critical-match/

Best regards,
Archaic

[GUT]

Hi everyone. There are new comments from Jari ron Russell Edwards' website. Dated 29 June 2015.

The heading is: Shawl that nailed Polish Lunatic Aaron Kosminski and the Forensic expert that made the critical match

http://www.thejacktherippertour.co.uk/shawl-that-nailed-polish-lunatic-aaron-kosminski-and-the-forensic-expert-that-made-the-critical-match/

Best regards,
Archaic

He's still at it.

[GUT]

But I guess he has to recover what he spent somehow.

[PaulB]

Hi everyone. There are new comments from Jari ron Russell Edwards' website. Dated 29 June 2015.

The heading is: Shawl that nailed Polish Lunatic Aaron Kosminski and the Forensic expert that made the critical match

http://www.thejacktherippertour.co.uk/shawl-that-nailed-polish-lunatic-aaron-kosminski-and-the-forensic-expert-that-made-the-critical-match/

Best regards,
Archaic

Everything relating to the rarity of the Eddowes DNA (314.1c) has been deleted from the paperback and, as in this interview, the concentration is on the match with Kosminski's DNA, which they claim is 100%. They go on to state that having the DNA of both Eddowes and Kosminski on the same piece of material is pretty decisive (which I guess it would be), but I'm not sure how certain the Eddowes DNA match now is. It certainly seems to be played down.

So, the emphasis is on the Kosminski DNA match.

[GUT]

Everything relating to the rarity of the Eddowes DNA (314.1c) has been deleted from the paperback and, as in this interview, the concentration is on the match with Kosminski's DNA, which they claim is 100%. They go on to state that having the DNA of both Eddowes and Kosminski on the same piece of material is pretty decisive (which I guess it would be), but I'm not sure how certain the Eddowes DNA match now is. It certainly seems to be played down.

So, the emphasis is on the Kosminski DNA match.

Leaving out the 314.1c!!

Almost an admission huh????

[John G]

The problem is that the DNA linked to Kosminski is MtDNA, haplogroup T1a1, which is a common subtype.

[GUT]

The problem is that the DNA linked to Kosminski is MtDNA, haplogroup T1a1, which is a common subtype.

And of course they still have to link the rotten bit of rag to Kate and more particular her murder site.

[John G]

Just found my previous post on this subject from last year. Kosminski is haplogroup T1a1 and around 2.17% of the population of England and Wales are mtDNA group T1. The subclade T1a1 represents about 80% of this total, giving a concentration of around 1.736%. That means about 94000 Londoner's, in 1888, would have shared Kosminski's mtDNA.

[GUT]

Just found my previous post on this subject from last year. Kosminski is haplogroup T1a1 and around 2.17% of the population of England and Wales are mtDNA group T1. The subclade T1a1 represents about 80% of this total, giving a concentration of around 1.736%. That means around 94000 Londoner's, in 1888, would have shared Kosminski's mtDNA.

And from that we jump to "It must be him".

And again no link to the bit of rag other than some vague family story.

[PaulB]

And from that we jump to "It must be him".

And again no link to the bit of rag other than some vague family story.

The 'bit of rag' is a fairly substantial piece of printed silk. We may not like the claims being made, but that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be stated and described fairly.

[GUT]

The 'bit of rag' is a fairly substantial piece of printed silk. We may not like the claims being made, but that doesn't mean that things shouldn't be stated and described fairly.

so nothing to link a fairly substantial bit of silk rag to the crime site other than a rather vague family story

[John G]

I've just found the reference relating to genetic variability: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376494/ As you can see, haplogroup T represents 2% of overall genetic variability in Western Europe, and 3% in Eastern Europe. And 80% of samples in the T1 tree fall within subclade T1a1. Document s2 gives the figures for the current genetic diversity per country. As you can see, the current concentration levels of haplogroup T1a1 in England are 1.8 %. Therefore, as a rough guide, the population of London was about 5.6 million in 1888, so 1.8% of that total would be about 100000 individuals.

Of course, as GUT points out, lack of provenance is a major problem: as a consequence we have no idea when the genetic material was deposited. I mean, it could have been in 1888, but presumably would be just as likely to be 1867, 1901, 1936...