A problem with the "Eddowes Shawl" DNA match

[Richard Dewar]

I think the differences is many ripper authors are respected for their research and info they've uncovered while Cornwall & Edwards hardly research at all, but rather try to misrepresent science in a way stupid people will believe. There's nothing to respect about that.

Rocky,

I have read both books and although I cannot support their conclusions, I cannot say they were not researched. Indeed, I think arranging for the testing of DNA is research.

Richard

[Richard Dewar]

Without wishing to be priggish, I think there some of us who would prefer it to be a question of historical scholarship rather than either a puzzle or a parlour game.

And I don't think the debate has been elevated at all by this DNA analysis.

Chris,

Perhaps I worded my contention poorly.

It is my contention that if the goal is to try to solve this case, we will never do so by the methods authors have used for years basing theories on trying to psychologically profile suspects and then determine if their specific whereabouts were unknown at the time of the murders.

If the case is ever to be solved, it will likely be with science. And so introducing DNA into Ripper research, in my view, is a good thing not a bad one. Even if the early efforts are clumsy and unsuccessful.

Richard

[Panderoona]

Chris,

Perhaps I worded my contention poorly.

It is my contention that if the goal is to try to solve this case, we will never do so by the methods authors have used for years basing theories on trying to psychologically profile suspects and then determine if their specific whereabouts were unknown at the time of the murders.

If the case is ever to be solved, it will likely be with science. And so introducing DNA into Ripper research, in my view, is a good thing not a bad one. Even if the early efforts are clumsy and unsuccessful.

Richard

I can't disagree with that view, however, more research should perhaps have gone into validating the back story to this shawl. It didn't take long for me to find Pc Amos Simpson on the 1881 and 1891 census's, and not much longer to discover his children's baptisms at Cheshunt Herts, in 1885, three full years before the Ripper struck in Mitre Square. At the same time as I found that, with nothing more than a subscription to Ancestry, others were verifying police records which proved he was stationed at Cheshunt. Without the back story, everything else falls apart.

[Richard Dewar]

I can't disagree with that view, however, more research should perhaps have gone into validating the back story to this shawl. It didn't take long for me to find Pc Amos Simpson on the 1881 and 1891 census's, and not much longer to discover his children's baptisms at Cheshunt Herts, in 1885, three full years before the Ripper struck in Mitre Square. At the same time as I found that, with nothing more than a subscription to Ancestry, others were verifying police records which proved he was stationed at Cheshunt. Without the back story, everything else falls apart.

Panderoona,

I agree with your conclusions. The problem with many theorists is that they are so anxious to prove their point, they don't look carefully at evidence that contradicts their findings. Or, even worse, the theorist will make rationalizations.

Had the initial contentions about the shawl been true - DNA match to the degree contended - this would have represented a significant finding. But with the science now in question, the deficiencies in the backstory of the shawl are even more significant.

[Chris]

If I am remembering correctly, 3 DNA searchable databases have been mentioned on this thread two of which correct for the entry of 314.1c and one that does not (and returns "global private variation").

I have a link to EMPOP database, would anyone have a links to the other two?

There is the GenBank database, where the match with a sequence belonging to haplogroup T1a1 was apparently found:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank

And there's HaploGrep, which is not quite a database but a web application that produces suggested haplogroups based on differences from the reference sequence:

http://haplogrep.uibk.ac.at/

HaploGrep works on information from the classification scheme at PhyloTree:

http://www.phylotree.org/

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

There is the GenBank database, where the match with a sequence belonging to haplogroup T1a1 was apparently found:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank

And there's HaploGrep, which is not quite a database but a web application that produces suggested haplogroups based on differences from the reference sequence:

http://haplogrep.uibk.ac.at/

HaploGrep works on information from the classification scheme at PhyloTree:
http://www.phylotree.org/

Thanks Chris

And here is another comment/blog on the RE book from

Jack the Ripper: The Ripping Yarn Goes On and On…

By Mark Wells, Lecturer-Broadcast/Multimedia Journalism at the University of East Anglia.

Unfortunately not a very in depth review. A lot about past theories with discussion of Edwards book confined to the last few paragraphs.

cheers, gryff

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

Update

I've updated my :

A DNA Mystery

to include animations

Now just click on each of the "create" buttons (on left) to make the 314.1c or 315.1c from the CRS.

There is no click on the "?" anymore, but you have the same mouse options:

Left Mouse and Drag - rotates. You can also use the arrow keys.
Scroll Wheel - zoom in and out

Same OS and video card criteria:

A computer from last few of years with decent video card.

Windows 7 + : You can use IE11, Chrome, Firefox
Windows XP: Chrome, Firefox
Recent Mac OS: Chrome, Firefox

And finally, as I write this I have no "Edit" button to edit my past posts - a forum glitch or is that only for current posts in the current login session?

cheers, gryff

[GUT]

There's a time limit on editing Gryff.

I can't view it I'll have to borrow a newer computer.

[Peter Griffith aka gryff]

There's a time limit on editing Gryff.

I can't view it I'll have to borrow a newer computer.

Do you know what you have GUT? Are you using a laptop? They can be a pain as they may use old Intel graphics

It is done with HTML5 and WebGL - so your web browser must support them.

Try to find a friend with more up-to-date graphics

cheers, gryff

[GUT]

Do you know what you have GUT? Are you using a laptop? They can be a pain as they may use old Intel graphics

It is done with HTML5 and WebGL

Try to find a friend with more up-to-date graphics

cheers, gryff

Yeah mate she's a pretty old laptop, I bought one of those Toughbooks a few years ago and you can't kill it, I keep looking at new ones but I'm to tight to buy a new one.

[Chris]

And here is another comment/blog on the RE book from

Jack the Ripper: The Ripping Yarn Goes On and On…

By Mark Wells, Lecturer-Broadcast/Multimedia Journalism at the University of East Anglia.

Unfortunately not a very in depth review. A lot about past theories with discussion of Edwards book confined to the last few paragraphs.

Thanks for this. Isn't it strange that he missed the correction of the 314.1C error, seeing that any sensible Google News Search on the story brings up multiple references to it? Good for Dusty Miller.

[robhouse]

Just an unrelated note... I think someone earlier posted some sales figures for Russell's book. I do not have access to that info, but if whoever posted that could look up sales figures for my book, I'd be very interested. I have no idea whatsoever how many copies have sold.

Rob H

[mickreed]

Just an unrelated note... I think someone earlier posted some sales figures for Russell's book. I do not have access to that info, but if whoever posted that could look up sales figures for my book, I'd be very interested. I have no idea whatsoever how many copies have sold.

Rob H

I posted some sales rankings for Amazon only. They only cover this month and last, which was okay for RE's book. Normally the actual number sold is not shown, although in his case it was for UK, Germany, and Canada, but only for ebooks.

Have a look here

http://www.salesrankexpress.com

Links to similar sites are given a little way down.

[mickreed]

New site article

Here’s what I hope will be my final words on this subject. It will likely be read in academic institutions all over the place.

Some dreadful editing that introduces typos and at least one error that wasn’t in the submission. I never mentioned ‘11 poor women', just 'poor women’. Still never mind.

http://theconversation.com/still-a-mystery-dna-hasnt-named-jack-the-ripper-after-all-33312

Cheers

[Amanda]

Well Done

Excellent article Mick.

Sums things up very well.

Amanda