September 30,1888- The night of Clues?

[Patrick Differ]

There were at least 3 clues over a 3 hour plus period of controlled madness on this night. Of all the nights JtR worked this one arguably is the only one with actual clues and physical evidence. ( Unless you think Edward's found Eddowes dark green Chintz skirt with flounces?)

I say at least 3 clues but there might be more if you also consider locations. Its not clear this is mere coincidence and this night appears to draw clear attention to the Jewish Immigrant Class. Here are the considerations.

STRIDE- the shout out of Lipski
the International Working Mens Club

EDDOWES- the Apron
. the graffiti message
The location of the grafitti on Goulston Street

In both cases it again appears that the killer makes attempts to cast blame on someone or some group. If Lipski is a racial slur directed at Schwartz and Pipe Man that would make the killer a non Jew. Also the murder next to a known Immigrant Jew Socialist Club could be sending a message?

If Lipski is a personal shout out to a Philip Lipski or more of a Declaration " this is for Lipski", that points to a Jew. Would Israel Scwartz turn in one of his own? It's interesting that Scwartz lived on Jubilee Street in 1901 and literally down the street from the new location of the Socialist Club.

With Eddowes the target for JtR behavior was to leave a bloody apron and message blaming Immigrant Jews in clear sight. Where he hid after Mitre Square may indicate he lived in the area and it may or may not be a coincidence that the Apron was left on Goulston Street.

So by comparison who would want to blame non immigrant Jews in the case of Stride if Lipski is a slur. And then turn around an hour later only to blame the immigrant Jews?

On the other hand, if Lipski was not meant as a slur, it could possibly mean that Scwartz recognized a Jew? One that he may or may not know personally. If he knew him personally I believe he may have had a different interaction. But instead he walked away.

This was a very busy night in Whitechapel with regard to this killer. He may have been recognized by Scwartz or Lawende or JH Levy. It could be another reason he sought out an indoor opportunity. This particular night he took his greatest risk of being caught, yet leaving clues in the midst of this madness, in my mind anyway, points to one shrewd and bold character. This was no embicil or ordinary madman walking the streets.

Just finished reading Fishmans- Jewish Radicals in the East End. There was no love loss between the anglicized Jews and Immigrant Jews who only spoke Yiddish and were seen as agitator. It would be hard to believe that at least one of these witnesses did indeed see the Ripper. Its possible of course ..

Any thoughts or perspective are welcome. Based on the latest Eddowes controversy it's hard to believe an embicil like Kosminski could pull off this night. I could find no proof of a Nathan Kaminski anywhere. Also there were many David Cohens in Whitechapel as that was the largest surname and it seems unlikely that would be used as a John Doe. Imagine the confusion caused by it.

Do the events of this night strongly implicate a Jewish person ?

[c.d.]

Hello Patrick,

You said thoughts on your post are welcome. So....

You have made several assumptions here:

That the B.S man was the killer of Stride;

That the killer wrote the GSG; and that

The message of the GSG is intended to be anti-Jewish.

All of those assertions are unproven.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Do the events of this night strongly implicate a Jewish person ?

Possibly, but you can't completely dismiss the idea of a clever non-Jewish killer attempting to implicate a Jew.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

‘Lipski’ wasn’t only used as an insult by Gentiles. Jews used it too.

[New Waterloo]

Thanks Patrick for raising the subject of clues. The word ‘clue’ can be interpreted in many ways. I suppose your post gives me the opportunity to say the same old thing and bore most to tears! But it is true that the night of the ‘double event’ does provide us with lots of ‘clues’. Personally I dont think we are going to get very far with the graffiti or the apron. I think Herlock is correct with the shouted word ‘Lipski’ could have been shouted by jew or non jew. The night provides bucket loads of information/evidence/clues through statements mostly. If we ask what does this information mean well it might lead us somewhere.
lets take the chalk graffiti. Setting aside the message itself it is telling us that the writer is carrying chalk with them. So who carries chalk around at night. Somebody who uses chalk in a profession such as taylors chalk. Very fine or somebody who planned to write the message. OK still doesn't get us far but somewhere.
Its just thinking a little bit more. Reading and re reading the statements made. And the result will be. We all go nuts!!! Seriously. Getting there
NW

[Abby Normal]

There were at least 3 clues over a 3 hour plus period of controlled madness on this night. Of all the nights JtR worked this one arguably is the only one with actual clues and physical evidence. ( Unless you think Edward's found Eddowes dark green Chintz skirt with flounces?)

I say at least 3 clues but there might be more if you also consider locations. Its not clear this is mere coincidence and this night appears to draw clear attention to the Jewish Immigrant Class. Here are the considerations.

STRIDE- the shout out of Lipski
the International Working Mens Club

EDDOWES- the Apron
. the graffiti message
The location of the grafitti on Goulston Street

In both cases it again appears that the killer makes attempts to cast blame on someone or some group. If Lipski is a racial slur directed at Schwartz and Pipe Man that would make the killer a non Jew. Also the murder next to a known Immigrant Jew Socialist Club could be sending a message?

If Lipski is a personal shout out to a Philip Lipski or more of a Declaration " this is for Lipski", that points to a Jew. Would Israel Scwartz turn in one of his own? It's interesting that Scwartz lived on Jubilee Street in 1901 and literally down the street from the new location of the Socialist Club.

With Eddowes the target for JtR behavior was to leave a bloody apron and message blaming Immigrant Jews in clear sight. Where he hid after Mitre Square may indicate he lived in the area and it may or may not be a coincidence that the Apron was left on Goulston Street.

So by comparison who would want to blame non immigrant Jews in the case of Stride if Lipski is a slur. And then turn around an hour later only to blame the immigrant Jews?

On the other hand, if Lipski was not meant as a slur, it could possibly mean that Scwartz recognized a Jew? One that he may or may not know personally. If he knew him personally I believe he may have had a different interaction. But instead he walked away.

This was a very busy night in Whitechapel with regard to this killer. He may have been recognized by Scwartz or Lawende or JH Levy. It could be another reason he sought out an indoor opportunity. This particular night he took his greatest risk of being caught, yet leaving clues in the midst of this madness, in my mind anyway, points to one shrewd and bold character. This was no embicil or ordinary madman walking the streets.

Just finished reading Fishmans- Jewish Radicals in the East End. There was no love loss between the anglicized Jews and Immigrant Jews who only spoke Yiddish and were seen as agitator. It would be hard to believe that at least one of these witnesses did indeed see the Ripper. Its possible of course ..

Any thoughts or perspective are welcome. Based on the latest Eddowes controversy it's hard to believe an embicil like Kosminski could pull off this night. I could find no proof of a Nathan Kaminski anywhere. Also there were many David Cohens in Whitechapel as that was the largest surname and it seems unlikely that would be used as a John Doe. Imagine the confusion caused by it.

Do the events of this night strongly implicate a Jewish person ?

no. the events of that night strongly implicate a non jew trying to implicate jews.

[Patrick Differ]

Hi cd- no doubt these are points based on assumption. But there is a possibility that these 5 clues ( for lack of a better word) might not be coincidental. I'm not asserting the connections are true, only possible. The fact that they happened are true. Although Schwartz hearing the word Lipski appears debateable. Eventhough there are several reasons why he heard this word. Its hard to dismiss. Any attempt to identify a motive can only be helpful.

As Herlock points out even Jews used Lipski as a slur as there were major concerns expressed by anglicized Jews towards perceived negative impacts by immigrants. Fishman has an entire Chapter dedicated to this and the anglicized Jews were concerned about the gains they had made in Parliament and with legislation over the past 20 years. This was a collision.

Did the killer have motive against both prostitutes and immigrant jews? If he were a gentile or anglicized jew they might. Either as a bigot or possibly from a traumatic incident with the immigrants.

it's not clear whether Philip Lipski and his wife still lived on Batty Street where Miriam Angel was murdered. In September 1888. It is known that Isaac Angel attacked the Lipski's not long after his wife's murder. They may have moved on.
This, along with the Stride Murder appears to be tied to the immigrant Jews and possibly those tied to the Radicals. The latter meaning workers and Unions and Jobs. Did Lipski refer to immigrant Jew only?

Sorry to dwell on this but if Long, Scwartz, Lawende, Joseph Hyam Levy and George Hutchinson all indicate a foriegner or person of Jewish appearance is who they saw, did that include all Jews or just immigrants and is that clearly stated anywhere?