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General Case ?'s Catherine Eddowes

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  • General Case ?'s Catherine Eddowes

    Hello All,
    I cannot seem to locate an already existing thread, so I am opening this one in order to help find answers to questions.

    I am obsessed with researching the Catherine Eddowes Case.

    My question:

    Are the "Shoe Lane Casual Ward" and "Mile End Casual Ward" one in the same, or (2) different locations?



    Thank you,

    Sluggo

  • #2
    geography

    Hello Sluggo. Good question.

    Shoe Lane Casual Ward was to the west of Aldgate; Mile End Casual Ward a good bit east.

    Cheers.
    LC
    Last edited by lynn cates; 02-16-2014, 01:36 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
      Hello Sluggo. Good question.

      Shoe Lane Casual Ward was to the west of Aldgate; Mile End casual Ward a good bit east.

      Cheers.
      LC
      Hi LC,

      Thank you. That clears up a lot of confusion on my part.

      Sluggo

      Comment


      • #4
        site

        Hello Sluggo. Thanks. The pleasure was all mine.

        Here is a site that might be helpful. I used it to research my Eddowes essay.

        http://www.workhouses.org.uk/

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
          Hello Sluggo. Thanks. The pleasure was all mine.

          Here is a site that might be helpful. I used it to research my Eddowes essay.

          http://www.workhouses.org.uk/

          Cheers.
          LC
          Hi LC,
          I will check it out. I appreciate the help.
          I have another question.

          Is the Pawn Ticket for the Boots still in existence? I could not find any reference to it in the Photo Archives.

          I located a picture of a vintage 1888 pawn ticket for reference, because I wanted to see if the date was written or stamped.
          The reference I found had the day date written, and the month and year stamped.
          It may seem that I am all over the board with my questions, I am just trying piece together all of the holes in John's so called story.



          Your help is Greatly Appreciated,

          Sluggo

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sluggo View Post
            Hi LC,
            I will check it out. I appreciate the help.
            I have another question.

            Is the Pawn Ticket for the Boots still in existence? I could not find any reference to it in the Photo Archives.

            I located a picture of a vintage 1888 pawn ticket for reference, because I wanted to see if the date was written or stamped.
            The reference I found had the day date written, and the month and year stamped.
            It may seem that I am all over the board with my questions, I am just trying piece together all of the holes in John's so called story.



            Your help is Greatly Appreciated,

            Sluggo
            Just read some of the workhouse casual ward information. Wow! They really had life rough....

            Comment


            • #7
              G'Day Sluggo

              It all goes back to that Victorian [and probably pre Victorian] attitude that anyone who could not provide for themselves was responsible for their own situation because of laziness, lack of moral standards and the like.

              It couldn't have simply been bad luck, ill health or a lack of available work.

              So off to a workhouse you go and one of the aims of workhouses seems to have included changing your moral outlook and work ethics, so you would never be in the same situation again.

              Of course if they made you work while in there you would work when you got out, it was all about reprogramming.
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #8
                That's the ticket.

                Hello Sluggo. Thanks.

                So far as I know, it is not.

                It sounds as if you are interested in some of the areas I covered in my Rip article. You might give that a go, possibly save a bit of time?

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  rough

                  Hello (again) Sluggo. Thanks.

                  Yes, quite rough.

                  What did you think of their fare--bread and gruel?

                  Cheers.
                  LC

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    G'Day Lynn and Sluggo

                    And lucky to get gruel at that.
                    G U T

                    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      oakum

                      Hello GUT. Thanks.

                      Of course, your fingers may be too sore from oakum picking to hold the spoon.

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        G'Day Lynn

                        All I can say is "a bloody tough life" no wonder some women chose prostitution over going to a workhouse.
                        G U T

                        There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GUT View Post
                          It all goes back to that Victorian [and probably pre Victorian] attitude that anyone who could not provide for themselves was responsible for their own situation because of laziness, lack of moral standards and the like.
                          I understand (right or wrong?), that the view Victorian society took of poverty was, that it was a crime. You and no-one else, are responsible for this crime.

                          Of course if they made you work while in there you would work when you got out, it was all about reprogramming.
                          One account I read was that the inmate was required to work most of the day to pay back the workhouse for last nights keep.
                          By the time their workday was over it was too late in the day to find work outside, so back they go to bed in the workhouse, and spend the best part of the following day paying their debt for another nights keep, and so on and so forth...
                          They were in effect trapped in a never ending cycle.
                          Regards, Jon S.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            G'Day Jon

                            I understand (right or wrong?), that the view Victorian society took of poverty was, that it was a crime. You and no-one else, are responsible for this crime.
                            I probably wouldn't use the word "crime" to explain the Victorian attitude to poverty, but the view was without a doubt that it was your fault, no matter how the poverty came about.

                            It was a not uncommon attitude [indeed that might be putting it mildly] that illness was as a result of sin, either yours or your parent's so no real excuse.

                            And it would appear that people who today we would call disabled were expected to work just as hard as able bodied people.

                            It was certainly not what we today would call a caring society.

                            One account I read was that the inmate was required to work most of the day to pay back the workhouse for last nights keep.
                            By the time their workday was over it was too late in the day to find work outside, so back they go to bed in the workhouse, and spend the best part of the following day paying their debt for another nights keep, and so on and so forth...
                            They were in effect trapped in a never ending cycle.
                            That is in agreement with what I have come to accept from my studies of the era and workhouses, once in you were never really going to get ahead and the best you could do was leave at the end of a days work.

                            Now if you had been sleeping rough and not eating for some time a week or two in a workhouse, with a place to sleep and some food may have restored a degree of strength and allowed you to try your luck on the outside again.

                            It is also worth remembering that the workhouses were in much greater demand in cold times than in better weather.
                            G U T

                            There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you for all of the replies. This is most helpful.

                              LC I will give your article a read.

                              I noticed when I was reading on the rules of the workhouses and casual wards that a few of them stated that if you go in on a Friday you are stuck until Monday, and if you come back prior to a 30 day absence that you now have a 4 night stay. I wonder how may of the wards in the Whitechapel, Spitalfields, and other surrounding districts had this distinct rule?

                              Also, I noticed that there were (2) Mile End workhouses/casual wards. One in Old Town and one in New Town near Bucks Row. So, which one did Kate supposedly stay in Friday the 28th? The inquest is not real clear on that.

                              Best Wishes,

                              Sluggo

                              Comment

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