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was Eddowes strangled?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DJA View Post

    Hi George,

    My money is on Eddowes being strangled in 6 Mitre Street after she told Jack that she replied to the police that her name was "nothing".

    The two cholesterol removals around her eyes were actually a result of research conducted by Gull and Sutton.That would have been done indoors with a small scalpel before she was taken into Mitre Square between police beats.

    Everything points to Henry Gawen Sutton being Jack the Ripper.
    All the mutilations relate to Eddowes being his patient,along with Nichols,since December 1867.
    Hi Dave,

    So you are suggesting that she was strangled, the eye cuts performed and her body dumped via the gate in the yard? What about the eviscerations? If Sutton was acting alone wouldn't he have left a trail trying to carry the body by himself, or do you think that that part took place in the Square?

    With regard to the Stride murder, do you see Sutton in the role of BSMan, Pipeman, Parcelman or an unseen hidden assailant?

    Cheers, George
    “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”
    If money can't buy happiness, explain motorcycles, malt whisky and pipe tobacco.
    Everybody lies - Greg House MD

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by GBinOz View Post

      Hi Dave,

      So you are suggesting that she was strangled, the eye cuts performed and her body dumped via the gate in the yard? What about the eviscerations? If Sutton was acting alone wouldn't he have left a trail trying to carry the body by himself, or do you think that that part took place in the Square?

      With regard to the Stride murder, do you see Sutton in the role of BSMan, Pipeman, Parcelman or an unseen hidden assailant?

      Cheers, George
      Hi George,

      I am suggesting that the cholesterol around the eyes required light and a small scalpel for their removal.

      Sutton waited until Constable Watkin passed at 1.30am before taking Eddowes into Mitre Square proper for 'evisceration",a remarkable effort given the time frame.

      I have no doubt Sutton was watching proceedings below from the first floor window.He would have been quite at home in the Jewish club.
      The cachous were medication for Stride's hereditary hemorrhagic telanggiectasia,a specialty of Sutton's.
      He had arranged,no doubt through Eddowes,to meet Stride in the alley.Eddowes was locked up,he was likely expecting her.
      After BS Man,Stride's protector had finally left,he was out the front door offering her the medication from his open hand.She picked them up with finger and thumb as he struck.

      Ciao,

      Dave.
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

      Comment


      • #18
        Click image for larger version

Name:	SINUS2.jpg
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ID:	771360 Hi George,
        I've posted this before.
        It is the initial infection points for Rheumatic Fever before the strep gets into the small intestine,heart,kidneys,etc.
        Compare .....

        Click image for larger version

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ID:	771361
        Ciao,

        Dave.
        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by DJA View Post
          Click image for larger version  Name:	SINUS2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	36.1 KB ID:	771360 Hi George,
          I've posted this before.
          It is the initial infection points for Rheumatic Fever before the strep gets into the small intestine,heart,kidneys,etc.
          Compare .....

          Click image for larger version  Name:	eddowes_sketch.jpg Views:	0 Size:	124.0 KB ID:	771361
          Ciao,

          Dave.
          Hi Dave,

          Thanks for the information. I have seen some of your posts but they have been addressing specific incidents. I understand that your theory is that Sutton was eliminating blackmailers. That could have been acheived with just the throat cuts. Why the escalating eviscerations? Was it his intention to eviscerate Stride, but was interupted? Wouldn't MJK have been alerted to his intentions and fled to escape him? Do you know if Sutton was a Mason?

          Cheers, George
          Last edited by GBinOz; 10-22-2021, 07:25 AM.
          “Contrariwise,” continued Tweedledee, “if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”
          If money can't buy happiness, explain motorcycles, malt whisky and pipe tobacco.
          Everybody lies - Greg House MD

          Comment


          • #20
            Hi George,

            No evidence that Sutton was a Freemason.
            Although most assume he was C of E,his leanings had become Jewish.Probably as a result of living amongst them at Finsbury Square,next door to where Gull had resided before moving next door to Randy Churchill.Can you see the Astracan,sic, lie of sailorman Hutchinson's.

            He was expecting Eddowes and Stride.
            Eddowes was his star patient and "brokering" the blackmail.

            Rough timeline.

            After Nichols and Eddowes had come across each other in Thrawl Street,Nichols moved next to Eddowes in Flower and Dean Street.
            Both had been inpatients of Sutton's from December 1867 with Rheumatic Fever.

            RL Stevenson's novella had returned as a stage play.

            Mary Ann Kelly advised them that Sutton/Hyde was a child molester and bi sexual and that she was the "trampled child".

            Eddowes went hopping and Nichols made her move close to The London Hospital.

            He was now up for murder rather than two years hard labor.

            Chapman was next.He had an attempt at taking her head off knowing she had TB. Another patient.

            Stride was not of great interest to him.

            Eddowes was,big time.

            Once Mary Ann Kelly was taken care of ......

            The whole story goes back to 1867 when he was in his first year at the London Hospital and Medical Officer at Mary Ann Kelly's Church Vestry Board.
            Sutton probably helped stitch her up.

            I've got so much on Sutton.

            The police knew,especially Major Henry Smith.

            Abberline was rushed in to cover things up.

            Ciao for Now,

            Dave.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by DJA View Post

              The facts I have continually supplied have nothing to do with "The Royal Conspiracy".

              The cuts inflicted on Eddowes are consistent with her Rheumatic Fever from December 1867.The strep has also invaded her kidneys.

              She also seems to have had cancer.

              Unlike the piffle you post on Stride's murder,these are historical medical facts.
              Sorry, I suppose a reference like Uncle Jack by Tony Williams is closer to the mark. Consistent...seems to have had...not exactly definite of anything and therefore not "facts" of any kind really. I did say it was a great story though.

              Yeah, the piffle based on facts from Stride's murder is small town compared with a 6 woman blackmail scheme,..or was it only 5? a royally connected villain, and medical mysteries.
              Last edited by Michael W Richards; 10-22-2021, 12:11 PM.

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              • #22
                Welcome to my ignore list.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                Comment


                • #23
                  Does the blood pattern around or under the bodies of the victims give an indication of whether strangulation was involved or not. I always assumed the victims had been strangled first as there did not appear to be an arterial spray of blood (with the possible exception of MJK). Am I being naive in thinking thinking there would have been a big spray of blood (is that something only for the movies?)
                  Best Regards,

                  Tristan

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                  • #24
                    Except for Mary Ann Kelly who prolly was "hiding" under her sheet,all the other four were dead before their throats were cut.

                    Stride wasn't actually strangled,however the blood flow to her brain was interfered with via an artery.
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DJA View Post
                      Hi George,

                      No evidence that Sutton was a Freemason.
                      Although most assume he was C of E,his leanings had become Jewish.Probably as a result of living amongst them at Finsbury Square,next door to where Gull had resided before moving next door to Randy Churchill.Can you see the Astracan,sic, lie of sailorman Hutchinson's.

                      He was expecting Eddowes and Stride.
                      Eddowes was his star patient and "brokering" the blackmail.

                      Rough timeline.

                      After Nichols and Eddowes had come across each other in Thrawl Street,Nichols moved next to Eddowes in Flower and Dean Street.
                      Both had been inpatients of Sutton's from December 1867 with Rheumatic Fever.

                      RL Stevenson's novella had returned as a stage play.

                      Mary Ann Kelly advised them that Sutton/Hyde was a child molester and bi sexual and that she was the "trampled child".

                      Eddowes went hopping and Nichols made her move close to The London Hospital.

                      He was now up for murder rather than two years hard labor.

                      Chapman was next.He had an attempt at taking her head off knowing she had TB. Another patient.

                      Stride was not of great interest to him.

                      Eddowes was,big time.

                      Once Mary Ann Kelly was taken care of ......

                      The whole story goes back to 1867 when he was in his first year at the London Hospital and Medical Officer at Mary Ann Kelly's Church Vestry Board.
                      Sutton probably helped stitch her up.

                      I've got so much on Sutton.

                      The police knew,especially Major Henry Smith.

                      Abberline was rushed in to cover things up.

                      Ciao for Now,

                      Dave.
                      Cool story, bro.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          A different line of argument: Eddowes was subdued and taken to the ground somehow, and in a manner that did not produce a lot of noise either. Strangulation is as good of a hypothesis as anything for this.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Meet Ze Monster View Post

                            The strangulation theory is somewhat supported by forensics in that there was less blood than should be expected in severed throat killings. In the case of Chapman, the tongue was protruding partway, indicating a likely strangulation....
                            More than that....

                            "The evidence given by Dr. Phillips on 18 Sept. at the Hanbury-street inquest is incontrovertible proof that Annie Chapman was partially strangled before her throat was cut. When Dr. Phillips was called to see the body he found that the tongue protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips. The face was swollen, the finger-nails and lips were turgid, and in the brain, on the head being opened, he found the membranes opaque and the veins and tissues loaded with black blood. All these appearances are the ordinary signs of suffocation. In Dr. Phillip's own words, "I am of opinion that the breathing was interfered with previous to death, but that death arose from syncope consequent on the loss of blood following the severance of the throat."
                            Star, 24 Dec. 1888.
                            https://www.casebook.org/press_repor...r/s881224.html


                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MrTwibbs View Post
                              I was discussing both the Eddowes and MJK murders with a friend recently who was adamant that all of the c5 excluding Stride were strangled. I always believed that Stride, Eddowes and MJK were not strangled because I do not recall seeing anything suggesting this in the source book. I believe the wording used for example in the Eddowes case was no superficial bruises.

                              Anyone care to clarify this?
                              There wouldn't be any bruises around Eddowes neck if he used a cord, as a garroter does.
                              This is a genuine corpse after the use of a cord.



                              Dr. Brownfield suggested the killer runs his knife through the ligature (cord) mark to hide the fact it was used.

                              "But, if the other victims had been first strangled would there not be postmortem indications?" - "If he cut the throat along the line
                              of the cord he would obliterate the traces of partial strangulation."


                              This is likely why we see no external signs of Eddowes being strangled/suffocated.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

                                More than that....

                                "The evidence given by Dr. Phillips on 18 Sept. at the Hanbury-street inquest is incontrovertible proof that Annie Chapman was partially strangled before her throat was cut. When Dr. Phillips was called to see the body he found that the tongue protruded between the front teeth, but not beyond the lips. The face was swollen, the finger-nails and lips were turgid, and in the brain, on the head being opened, he found the membranes opaque and the veins and tissues loaded with black blood. All these appearances are the ordinary signs of suffocation. In Dr. Phillip's own words, "I am of opinion that the breathing was interfered with previous to death, but that death arose from syncope consequent on the loss of blood following the severance of the throat."
                                Star, 24 Dec. 1888.
                                https://www.casebook.org/press_repor...r/s881224.html

                                Coroner] Was there any disease? - Yes. It was not important as regards the cause of death. Disease of the lungs was of long standing, and there was disease of the membranes of the brain. The stomach contained a little food.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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