Kate's Apron

[Trevor Marriott]

It’s baffling how you can make that deduction from that letter Trevor? I think that we can assume that Sir Charles Warren and Henry Matthews had very limited expertise on the subject of the clothing of working class women and so, for him, the words ‘bib’ and ‘apron’ were just interchangeable.

The letter clearly shows no doubt about the existence of the apron as it’s an attempt to get clarification on whether the possibility existed that it could have found it’s way to Goulston Street without being carried their by the killer. Basically, why would the Home Secretary be asking “how did x get to y” if he suspected that x didn’t exist in the first place?

The letter refers to a piece of apron there is no mention of a full apron we know that a piece of apron was found in GS

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[Herlock Sholmes]

The letter refers to a piece of apron there is no mention of a full apron we know that a piece of apron was found in GS

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Come on Trevor. That’s nitpicking. We know what he meant.

[Wickerman]

They were not present when the body was stripped and the list compiled so nothing more than hearsay !

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Can you tell me how you know who was present?

Lets say, just for the sake of argument, it was hearsay. Hearsay must come from someone, and if you think the only people present were police officials & Dr Brown, then which one talked?
And, if either one of them did talk, why is what they said 'unreliable', because after all, they were there, right?

[Trevor Marriott]

Can you tell me how you know who was present?

Lets say, just for the sake of argument, it was hearsay. Hearsay must come from someone, and if you think the only people present were police officials & Dr Brown, then which one talked?
And, if either one of them did talk, why is what they said 'unreliable', because after all, they were there, right?

Lets not say for argument, lets stick to the facts

There was no press men present either when the body was stripped, or when the post mortem took place and there is no mention from those who were present that she was found with anything around her neck.

Does this crime scene photo show anything around her neck, and does it show her wearing a full length white bib apron with a piece missing

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[Herlock Sholmes]

Lets not say for argument, lets stick to the facts

There was no press men present either when the body was stripped, or when the post mortem took place and there is no mention from those who were present that she was found with anything around her neck.

Does this crime scene photo show anything around her neck, and does it show her wearing a full length white bib apron with a piece missing

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It’s not a ‘photo’ Trevor. It’s a sketch done by someone whose focus was to show the position of the body and the injuries and mutilations. Exact and detailed representations of her attire would hardly have been a priority.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Can I ask a question? I’m not making a point here, I just don’t know the answer.

Do we know for certain that there was no Press present when the body was stripped?

[Trevor Marriott]

Can I ask a question? I’m not making a point here, I just don’t know the answer.

Do we know for certain that there was no Press present when the body was stripped?

The inquest testimony shows who was present.Press are never allowed inside a mortuary when a post mortem is taking place

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[Herlock Sholmes]

The inquest testimony shows who was present.Press are never allowed inside a mortuary when a post mortem is taking place

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What about when the body first arrived and was stripped? Can we be certain that someone from the Press didn’t get in or that one of the officials didn’t feed info directly to journalist?

[Trevor Marriott]

What about when the body first arrived and was stripped? Can we be certain that someone from the Press didn’t get in or that one of the officials didn’t feed info directly to journalist?

You have to ask with all that was going on at the mortuary and all the persons present who were supposed to be there would they allow the press in, after all victorian mortuaries were not that big in any event.

If anyone had fed info to the press there would have been more published than that surely

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[Herlock Sholmes]

You have to ask with all that was going on at the mortuary and all the persons present who were supposed to be there would they allow the press in, after all victorian mortuaries were not that big in any event.

If anyone had fed info to the press there would have been more published than that surely

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I’m not suggesting that a member(s) of the press might have been officially allowed in but we know that these buildings were little more than outhouses and then we have the paupers that worked there, like Robert Mann. Can we be sure that they wouldn’t have been susceptible to a backhander from a journalist to be allowed to sneak in?

[Wickerman]

The press do not sleep. Especially through the Ripper scare.
Regardless, it doesn't matter, I think Trevor knows he has trapped himself. Even if no press were there it means Dr Brown, Phillips, Collard, Halse, etc. had to have spoken to the press about the list, so even by any process of elimination, the source had to be official.
A press version of the list was available on Sunday for it to appear in the papers on Monday, and the source had to be official.

[Wickerman]

The inquest testimony shows who was present.Press are never allowed inside a mortuary when a post mortem is taking place

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It's not a post-mortem though Trevor.

We are talking about 3:00am Sunday morning when the body arrived at Golden Lane mortuary.
The press reported that T.C. was tatooed on her forearm, how did they know that, it was not on the List. It was not in the Sunday press.
Some official had to have told them, or they saw it.

The post-mortem was conducted Sunday afternoon.

[Trevor Marriott]

It's not a post-mortem though Trevor.

We are talking about 3:00am Sunday morning when the body arrived at Golden Lane mortuary.
The press reported that T.C. was tatooed on her forearm, how did they know that, it was not on the List. It was not in the Sunday press.
Some official had to have told them, or they saw it.

The post-mortem was conducted Sunday afternoon.

Do we know if she had a tatoo on her forearm? you are again guilty of believing what the press report

You can belive what you want to believe I will believe what the facts and the evidence tells me, there is no mention in official records or anything around her neck.-END OF STORY

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[Wickerman]

Trevor, her Dark Green Chintz Skirt was described in the Monday morning papers as having a Michaelmas Daisey pattern & Golden Lilies, yet the official list makes no mention of either Michaelmas Daisey's or Golden Lilies.
Somehow the press knew this before they went to press Sunday night for the morning papers.

[Joshua Rogan]

Maybe the details were leaked by one of the many doctors and medical students helping themselves to organs from the mortuary.