Kate's Apron

[Wickerman]

...

Somewhere along the line we have to consider the possibility that the police were not complete idiots, and that the experienced doctors were not totally incompetent.

One distinct factor each ill-conceived theory has in common is, the requirement for police & medical officials to be fools.

[Wickerman]

We already showed you she has reasons to take the apron off especially if she is going to prostitute herself and the apron was old or dirty..

Anal intercourse was the norm for street prostitutes, their version of 'safe-sex'. An apron doesn't impede anal intercourse.

[Wickerman]

You are right, forgot that part.

And, it's precisely because he/they didn't see the victims face, that there was expressed uncertainty that he/they had seen the victim at all. He/they were not allowed to view the body to identify her.

[Varqm]

I spend most of my time on here complaining about people presenting their opinions as facts. Unlike some, I know the difference.

Why don’t you and The Baron, just for once, stop being such babies and post honestly rather than just as a means of having an obsessive dig at me. For Christ’s sake haven’t you anything better to do. Get a life, both of you.

No you do not the difference. For the 100th time, there are no testimonies about the apron after Hutt's 1:00 AM sighting of the apron, it is blank,. From after 1:00 am to 1;44 am to 2:20 am (Halse's return from Goulston, then he accompanied the body to the mortuary with Collard,Brown,Sequiera,) there is no testimony about the apron and no amount of speculation/opinion could change that. Those are the facts. This you do not understand.
And instead you put your opinions oh she must have done this or that ,why would she, why would she not, between 1:00 Am and 1:44 Am. like it was fact. You are the baby.

So we have to rely on the next testimony about the apron, which was from Collard/Brown/Halse at the mortuary.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I strongly believe you don't know the difference.



The Baron

Is that the best you can possibly do? You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel to post something said in frustration.

I should have said 99% definitely Eddowes was wearing an apron. It was a bit of an exaggeration….so what?

But it’s hardly in the same league as you saying that Mackenzie was definitely a ripper victim. Now THAT is stating an opinion as fact.

If I said that it was Tuesday you would argue that it was Wednesday. You’re whole reason for posting is this childish need to have stupid digs at me.

Can’t you find someone else to troll?

[The Baron]

I spend most of my time on here complaining about people presenting their opinions as facts. Unlike some, I know the difference.

It’s rock solid. 100% definitely Eddowes was wearing an apron. There’s not a single, solitary, scintilla of cogent, reasoned evidence to the contrary.

I strongly believe you don't know the difference.



The Baron

[JeffHamm]

...

Actually, both lists appear to be prior to the inquest. In the first list I mentioned (2 pages) each brief note beside a witness begins "will", as in will bring, or will present, will provide, etc. So clearly made before the inquest.
The ornate hand (3 pages) is not clear, each note is a bit ambiguous as to when it was written, but I notice Lawende is written Lawrence (his name was correctly established at the inquest), and the brief note reads "can give a description of the supposed murderer".

Those two points alone tend to suggest this ornate list was also written before the inquest.

Hi wickerman,
Good point. Yes, the wording suggests who is going to testify about what. I'm just not sure if it is written that way because it's intended as a sort of table of contents to go at the front (so telling the reader of the documents what is in the file, in which case they could be written after the fact) or briefing notes to the coroner (which def. Mean before the testimony).

I've not looked at them closely though, just noted them and grabbed Long's as it indicates the court summaries indicate a view on the apron matter.

- Jeff

[Herlock Sholmes]

I suggest you better read his informative posts and not rush to write an arbitrary respond.



The Baron

I didn’t notice an ‘informative’ post.

[Herlock Sholmes]

On the point that Eddowes was menstruating, and cut her apron to use as a makeshift sanitary towel, I have a few observations.

Firstly, we have all of the references to her wearing an apron, and even if she allegedly removed it late on during the evening, we still have Collard saying that she was apparently wearing it - the correct way to describe an apron which was in place "outside her dress", but cut and hanging off. Also we have Shelton's press release which demonstrates that the City Police believed she was wearing an apron at 1. 30 am.

Eddowes had just one apron, which was obviously of some importance to her, as she had repaired it once and continued to wear it. I am lost for words at the suggestion that she cut her apron (with a table knife!) rather than use one of the 12 pieces of rag which she was keeping for some purpose. I struggle to accept that 12 pieces of rag were more precious to her than her one and only apron.

Then we have the post mortem report. Dr Brown, apparently observed by Sequeira, Saunders and Phillips, found "no evidence of connexion", but none of them noticed she was menstruating! Furthermore, Brown felt that the apron portion had been used to wipe hands or a knife. We are asked to believe that not one of the four experienced doctors could recognize a home made sanitary towel!!!!

Somewhere along the line we have to consider the possibility that the police were not complete idiots, and that the experienced doctors were not totally incompetent.

You see Baron,

An intelligent, sensible post.

And yet you keep cheering nonsense like a

[Herlock Sholmes]

Don't take him seriously. He thinks his opinions are better than facts, these are from arrogant fools.

I spend most of my time on here complaining about people presenting their opinions as facts. Unlike some, I know the difference.

Why don’t you and The Baron, just for once, stop being such babies and post honestly rather than just as a means of having an obsessive dig at me. For Christ’s sake haven’t you anything better to do. Get a life, both of you.

[Doctored Whatsit]

On the point that Eddowes was menstruating, and cut her apron to use as a makeshift sanitary towel, I have a few observations.

Firstly, we have all of the references to her wearing an apron, and even if she allegedly removed it late on during the evening, we still have Collard saying that she was apparently wearing it - the correct way to describe an apron which was in place "outside her dress", but cut and hanging off. Also we have Shelton's press release which demonstrates that the City Police believed she was wearing an apron at 1. 30 am.

Eddowes had just one apron, which was obviously of some importance to her, as she had repaired it once and continued to wear it. I am lost for words at the suggestion that she cut her apron (with a table knife!) rather than use one of the 12 pieces of rag which she was keeping for some purpose. I struggle to accept that 12 pieces of rag were more precious to her than her one and only apron.

Then we have the post mortem report. Dr Brown, apparently observed by Sequeira, Saunders and Phillips, found "no evidence of connexion", but none of them noticed she was menstruating! Furthermore, Brown felt that the apron portion had been used to wipe hands or a knife. We are asked to believe that not one of the four experienced doctors could recognize a home made sanitary towel!!!!

Somewhere along the line we have to consider the possibility that the police were not complete idiots, and that the experienced doctors were not totally incompetent.

[Herlock Sholmes]

We already showed you she has reasons to take the apron off especially if she is going to prostitute herself and the apron was old or dirty


The argument that she has no reasons to do this has been cracked and humiliated




The Baron

You’ve showed nothing but nonsense. Have you read anything about the lives of these women? They wore virtually everything they owned. They were always desperate for cash. They didn’t know where the next item of food was coming from or whether they would be sleeping indoors or outdoors. They had sex with the lowest dregs of society. To suggest that she took of her apron, that she had had on all day, just to attract a client at 1.00am is laughable.

The post by Varqm was just a side-step because of the Inquest statements of Wilkinson, Hutt and Robinson.

Absolutely pathetic desperation.

[Varqm]

I suggest you better read his informative posts and not rush to write an arbitrary respond.



The Baron

Don't take him seriously. He thinks his opinions are better than facts, these are from arrogant fools. It does not change the fact that we rely on Collard/Brown, in the mortuary ,with better lighting as the body was stripped, on whether Kate was wearing an apron or not when killed. Halse too relied on being in the mortuary, saw the body stripped, on observing the apron was missing a portion.

[The Baron]

I missed this post. Unfortunately I’ve seen it now and it’s the usual nonsense.

She had no reason. You are clueless.

We already showed you she has reasons to take the apron off especially if she is going to prostitute herself and the apron was old or dirty


The argument that she has no reasons to do this has been cracked and humiliated




The Baron

[The Baron]

Yup move on. Your last nonsense has been dealt with.

I suggest you better read his informative posts and not rush to write an arbitrary respond.



The Baron