John's Echo Interview

[lynn cates]

gin

Hello Greg. Thanks. I'm sure you have heard of the Scottish chieftain who sent his men across the border into England for a raid. They came back with 100 bottles of whiskey and a loaf of bread. After surveying the spoils, he squints his eye and asks, "Well, noo, who d'ye think's goin' to eat all th' bread?" (heh-heh)

I believe there was an article about gin in a past Ripperologist (or Casebook Examiner). You might have a go at that.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

The Family Physician, published by Cassell & Co, 1886—



Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

getting the boot

Hello Simon. Thanks. Now that that has been cleared up . . .

Here's another one, and it regards the pawn tickets. I just had a go at "The Times" and they indicated that both pawn tickets were from August. Either that's a mistake or there were more than one set of boots under discussion.

The prices are problematic as well. John claimed 2s 6p for the boots. "The Times" claimed 1s 6p for both--1 and 6 respectively. A third account said 9d for the shirt.

So were there 2 sets of boots? How much did John and Kate get for them?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

The Thunderer was confused. Hardly surprising with the Special Commission looming.

The shirt was pledged for 9d on 31st August, and the boots for 2s 6d on 28th September.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

Ah!

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Now THAT makes sense.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Just the facts mam...

Hello Greg. Thanks. I'm sure you have heard of the Scottish chieftain who sent his men across the border into England for a raid. They came back with 100 bottles of whiskey and a loaf of bread. After surveying the spoils, he squints his eye and asks, "Well, noo, who d'ye think's goin' to eat all th' bread?" (heh-heh)

Excellent Lynn. Undoubtedly a true story....

I believe there was an article about gin in a past Ripperologist (or Casebook Examiner). You might have a go at that.

This I would like to see. I learned of buckets of beer last Spring and now it's time for dollops of gin....

The Family Physician, published by Cassell & Co, 1886—

Thanks Simon. Just what we needed. As I suspected, the gin was strong and cautiously served.....

The shirt was pledged for 9d on 31st August, and the boots for 2s 6d on 28th September.

Again. Just what we needed. Excellent...


Greg

[lynn cates]

copper clapper caper

Hello Greg. Thanks.

If you want "just the facts," here's how it's done.

Cheers.
LC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slCNTz72o4s

[Phil Carter]

Hello Lynn,

Thanks. Two questions. Can you please remind me of the following two facts...
When was the earliest known time that a newspaper published the fact that the murdered woman was the same woman that had been taken in to Bishopsgate Police Station? and
Likewise John Kelly's identification of the body.

with thanks on beforehand

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Phil,

If I may oblige.

The two City police officers who made the arrest in Aldgate spoke to a superior officer on the morning of Tuesday 2nd October, and "having seen the mutilated body at the mortuary in Golden-lane, expressed the opinion that it was that of a woman who had been taken to the station by them a short time ago when under the influence of drink. Owing to the disfigurement of the face they could not, however, speak with absolute certainty." [Daily News, Wednesday 3rd October].

John Kelly went to Bishopsgate police station between nine and ten o'clock on the evening of Tuesday 2nd October. Sergeant Miles immediately took him to Golden Lane mortuary, where he identified the body as that of Eddowes. "Being asked why he had not made inquiries before relative to her absence on Saturday night and since, he replied that he thought she had got into some trouble and had been locked up, and he thought he had better wait. She was given to drinking." [The Times and other papers, Wednesday 3rd October].

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Simon

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Phil,

If I may oblige.

The two City police officers who made the arrest in Aldgate spoke to a superior officer on the morning of Tuesday 2nd October, and "having seen the mutilated body at the mortuary in Golden-lane, expressed the opinion that it was that of a woman who had been taken to the station by them a short time ago when under the influence of drink. Owing to the disfigurement of the face they could not, however, speak with absolute certainty." [Daily News, Wednesday 3rd October].

John Kelly went to Bishopsgate police station between nine and ten o'clock on the evening of Tuesday 2nd October. Sergeant Miles immediately took him to Golden Lane mortuary, where he identified the body as that of Eddowes. "Being asked why he had not made inquiries before relative to her absence on Saturday night and since, he replied that he thought she had got into some trouble and had been locked up, and he thought he had better wait. She was given to drinking." [The Times and other papers, Wednesday 3rd October].

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Simon

And of course not forgetting the secret hiding place in her bonnet which you may want expand on. I dont have it all to hand at this precise moment.

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil,

If I may oblige.

The two City police officers who made the arrest in Aldgate spoke to a superior officer on the morning of Tuesday 2nd October, and "having seen the mutilated body at the mortuary in Golden-lane, expressed the opinion that it was that of a woman who had been taken to the station by them a short time ago when under the influence of drink. Owing to the disfigurement of the face they could not, however, speak with absolute certainty." [Daily News, Wednesday 3rd October].

John Kelly went to Bishopsgate police station between nine and ten o'clock on the evening of Tuesday 2nd October. Sergeant Miles immediately took him to Golden Lane mortuary, where he identified the body as that of Eddowes. "Being asked why he had not made inquiries before relative to her absence on Saturday night and since, he replied that he thought she had got into some trouble and had been locked up, and he thought he had better wait. She was given to drinking." [The Times and other papers, Wednesday 3rd October].

Hope it helps.

Regards,

Simon

Hello Simon and Trevor,

Thank you for the reply, most helpful indeed.

You see, I am trying to understand John Kelly's testimony to the Police and at the inquest. (not easy, I know)...

Here, above, the Kelly comment was that he only "thought" she (Eddowes) had been locked up...

But he was TOLD she had been locked up the very same evening before she was released that she had been locked up, by the old lady from the market who knew Eddowes to see her arrested, knew him to go tell him and knew where he was staying in order to do so.

So why wait? She wasn't going to be locked up for 3 days on drunk and disorderly, surely?

And if he gave his statement to the police, why in heaven's name didn't they ask him to tell them the old woman's name, and what her connection with the pair was, in order to verify his story AND possibly get a 2nd, confirmation of identification of Eddowes, who KNEW who she was?

best wishes

Phil

[Simon Wood]

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for reminding me.

It's from the Daily Telegraph, Thursday 4th October 1888—

"That he [Kelly] was acquainted with the customs of such women as the deceased he showed by searching for the pawn ticket and for money in the bonnet, a place of concealment which would probably escape the notice of the uninitiated."

What money? And why wasn't he aware from having read the newspapers [see various interviews] that the pawn tickets had been found in a mustard tin next to her body?

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Oh Lordy, are we all getting excited now.

Kellys actions re the bonnet are quite innocent.

What was pawned exactly?

Are we party to the full dealings of witnesses? No...so we conject. Its Cross all over again.

Trevor and Simon....sounds like a kids TV act from the 80s.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

No need for the attitude. We all operate in a spirit of cordiality. Remember?

Hi Phil,

Kelly was reported at the inquest as saying that he heard about Eddowes' arrest from an old woman in the market on Saturday afternoon.

He next booked a single bed at the lodging house an hour before the Aldgate arrest.

Go figure.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Hi Monty,

No need for the attitude. We all operate in a spirit of cordiality. Remember?

Hi Phil,

Kelly was somewhere reported as saying that he heard about Eddowes' arrest from an old woman in the market on Saturday afternoon.

He next booked a single bed at the lodging house an hour before the Aldgate arrest.

Go figure.

Regards,

Simon

Apologies Simon,

My Bull$hit senses started to tingle.

Monty