The Apron Again

[Supe]

Curious,

Thank you for your comments. Previously, other women like Jane Coram and "Archaic" have said much the same thing about the implausibility of the theory, but certain males persist in advancing it.

Moreover, even had an emergency arisen, Kate had ample resources upon her person including "12 pieces of white rag" that would likely have sufficed.

Don.

[curious]

hello Lxnn,


a thin piece of apron would suffice to wipe oneself after urinating would it not? Hence the residue of faecal matter. If she happened to be at the very start or end of her menstrual cycle then the blood spots are feasably explained- no?

Best wishes

Phil

Fellas,
As a woman, I find it impossible to imagine a woman doing what you are suggesting here.

If caught out in an emergency, perhaps Eddowes (or any other woman) would most likely tear (not cut. Did she even have a means to cut?) a small portion of an undergarment and apply it as your theory apparently demands.

The apparent size of the apron piece argues against your theory.

I can not imagine any woman removing a very large piece of her outermost garment, then leaving the remainder tied to her front. Think about it. This makes no sense.

I don't understand the reason for grasping so fixedly to this notion.

I can not believe a woman would cut half of a garment she is wearing, then continue wearing it as her uppermost piece of clothing. This just does NOT track.

Whatever theory you're developing based on this line of thinking is, IMHO, not likely to be anywhere near the truth.

curious

[Monty]

Hi Lynn,

The City Police reversed their beats that night. There's no record the Met did. And there is no record of a re-assignment however, Long was new to his beat, with him being from A Division.

Monty

[lynn cates]

beat generation

Hello Neil. And this may raise the further issue about beats that night--am I correct to assume that some beats had been reassigned?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

under pressure

Hello Phil. Yes, plausible.

My urinary reflections pertain more to Kate's priorities upon release from gaol. I suggest that she was "under pressure" to tend to concerns other than solicitation.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

Hello Neil. Indeed. And it is likely that his pursuit coloured his estimate about finding the apron.

My point is that a typical beat copper would be more attuned to looking for "irregularities" here and there. A detective looking for a criminal, less likely--he is seeking his prey.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn

Well yes and no.

Yes because a beat PC should know his beat.

No because the nature of Police work is to look for the unusual, as that is often a sign there's something wrong.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

hello Lxnn,


a thin piece of apron would suffice to wipe oneself after urinating would it not? Hence the residue of faecal matter. If she happened to be at the very start or end of her menstrual cycle then the blood spots are feasably explained- no?

Best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

[QUOTE=Monty;198945]"And nn (Sic) person belongs to an "elite" group. Quote SPE "THERE IS NO ELITE IN RIPPEROLOGY" no matter how pompous."

Cued on time.

Obviously there are issues of inferiority there.

I have never made the suggestion of elitism (that's others assumption), I am making the suggestion that the standard of theorising has declined and has drawn a confusing cloud over the case.

Some protesters make plaques then sing and shout about the worlds injustices, others sit in the background and conduct the real daming work.

I see plenty of the former with the conspiracists, however nothing of the latter.

If you are going to accused, present your evidence....n
ot theory.

Monty,

I decide what I write and when- and because WE do not choose to follow the bleat of a sheep does not make US wrong. has it occured to you that fewer people are convinced by the same bleat that leads us nowhere in perpetuity?
Evidence is being presented by many. You just blackball ALL of it. Doesnt matter what.
Cued? Yup. Because of your self styled need to always want to dig at people, you respond as expected- with more pretentious bleating
By the way, I am not aware that anyone feels in any way inferior to anyone. The "issues" you talk of are in your mind.

Don,

it is quite plausible given the time frame that Eddowes may have dumped that apron piece herself, unless of course you can prove she could NOT have been there? I look forward to seeing such evidence. Re elite, believe it or not- you are not qualified to assume that title. It is earned on the judgement of your peers. It is sheer pomposity to assume such a title.


Phil

[lynn cates]

beat copper

Hello Neil. Indeed. And it is likely that his pursuit coloured his estimate about finding the apron.

My point is that a typical beat copper would be more attuned to looking for "irregularities" here and there. A detective looking for a criminal, less likely--he is seeking his prey.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

custom of the country

Hello Don.

"Do you really think Eddowes rending her apron for use as a temporary sanitary napkin, given all we know about the case, Eddowes and feminine hygiene, is really plausible?"

Now THAT is an excellent question. If I recall the custom amongst British ladies from a bygone era, one employed old towels, clothes, etc. for such use. Typically, such cloth would be threadbare. Do we have any information about the integrity of the apron--beyond its being dirty?

I think, however, that the custom involved taking the towel or garment out of commission before making "napkins" of it.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

"And nn (Sic) person belongs to an "elite" group. Quote SPE "THERE IS NO ELITE IN RIPPEROLOGY" no matter how pompous."

Cued on time.

Obviously there are issues of inferiority there.

I have never made the suggestion of elitism (that's others assumption), I am making the suggestion that the standard of theorising has declined and has drawn a confusing cloud over the case.

Some protesters make plaques then sing and shout about the worlds injustices, others sit in the background and conduct the real daming work.

I see plenty of the former with the conspiracists, however nothing of the latter.

If you are going to accused, present your evidence....not theory.

Monty

[Monty]

Long claimed not to know of the murder when he actually found the apron and graffiti. Not just when he went around earlier.

Absolutely Lechmere,

I think its naïve and impractical to assume Long would check every doorway on his beat. Especially as he was unaware of a murder.

Its mentioned in the regulation, private property can only be search if a PC felt a crime had, or was about to take place. That's not to say he couldn't or shouldn't have searched the stairwell at 2.20am, just that the expectation that he should do on every sweep is unrealistic.

That said, as FM stated, he claims he did look in at 2.20am.

Monty

[Monty]

Hello Neil.

"Halse didn't have a 'beat'"

Exactly. And anyone not on a beat would perhaps not look as carefully as one who did.

" [he] had every right to be in the Met territory of Goulston Street."

Although I'm not sure what a "right" is, whatever it is, I'm sure he had a right to be there--or any other place he bloody well desired. But surely one is less observant when away from home territory?

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,

I think Halses statement is more to do with where he was actually walking along Goulston St (possibly the western side) as opposide to his observance.

Halse was in pursuit of a killer, not looking for flotsum and jetsum.

Monty

[Supe]

Phil,

Perhaps Mr Souden disagrees with Mr Evans?

I do recall that at the conference in Wolverhampton he and I did seemingly disagree on what to have for breakfast. Does that count?

Don.

[Supe]

Phil,

So what IF the apron piece was dumped by Eddowes herself? . . . Likewise an accomplice doing it. Whoever that could have been. Both are plausible.

Do you really think Eddowes rending her apron for use as a temporary sanitary napkin, given all we know about the case, Eddowes and feminine hygiene, is really plausible? Not possible, but plausible; that is, valid or likely. Nor can both your possibilities (Eddowes or an accomplice) be equally plausible as they are mutually exclusive.

Think outside the box all you wish and more power to you, but as you play with ideas beyond the pale make sure you don't confuse the possible with the plausible.

Don.