Striking after being seen?

[tji]

Hi Tom

Thanks for that, Teej. I didn’t know that.

No probs, contrary to popular belief, I am a nice person really

Teej

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. But surely the mutilations on these 3 vary widely?

If you look at Baxter's summation at the Stride inquest, he sums that notion up admirably.

Cheers.
LC

not really no, this variation is mainly due to the time available to mutilate, plus one of these was never intended as a mutilation anyway...finally, these might also vary due to his mood swings.

it is fair to assume that Kelly is a hideous version of Eddowes, simply due to the fact that the killer had far more time to carry on mutilating her....Kelly is the next stage on from Eddowes

he really made a mess of her, this is also maybe due to the fact that she was younger and more attractive than the rest, so this angered him, he was basically removing any trace of womanhood and sexuality from her.... he was destroying her identity.

but my guess is, this is probably due to the fact that he had loads more time with her to indulge his twisted fantasies.

all 3 murders are linked due to anti-semetism, the graffiti and Dutfields yard.

dont expect JTR to always kill exactly the same, because what you're looking at instead, is a spate of murders/mutilations suddenly erupting like a volcano in Whitechapel 1888 and then dieing back down after Kelly.

this killer is evolving and not only becomming more hideous, but his ego is growing all the time, he's becoming more brash and arrogant, just like Zodiac, so he's starting to leave messages, taunting the police and then to top it all we have his ``GRAND FINALE``.

nothing after Kelly ? yes this is most odd, the killer left Whitechapel; almost definitely, it looks like Kelly and all the rubbish afterwards is him saying goodbye to us.

[Ben]

Hi Jon,

Unless the woman was directly blocking Lawende's line of vision, there was no obstacle to noticing details of the man's clothing, such as the pepper and salt jacket. The fact that the description appeared in the Police Gazette assures us of its authenticity, unless the police tampered with the description or Lawende lied, and neither of these suggestions is credible. As I've mentioned on other threads, it is quite possible to provide a good description of somebody or something without being able to recognise him/her/it again. As such, there is no contradiction between Lawende's reasonably detailed description and his expression of doubt as to whether or not he could identify the man. As for Harris, it is clear that he saw the least of the trio, and was unlikely to have been the source of that October 2nd description.

Best regards,
Ben

[Phil H]

it is fair to assume that Kelly is a hideous version of Eddowes, simply due to the fact that the killer had far more time to carry on mutilating her....Kelly is the next stage on from Eddowes

I don't think that that is a "fair" (or even the only) assumption one could make.

MJK could be an attept to replicate the mutilations on Eddowes done by someone who had READ about them, but not seen the body. In other words, MJK's murder was made to LOOK LIKE the work of "Jack" but was not done by him.

he really made a mess of her, this is also maybe due to the fact that she was younger and more attractive than the rest, so this angered him, he was basically removing any trace of womanhood and sexuality from her.... he was destroying her identity.

Or that he did not understand quite what he was doing - he had read or been told that certain things were done, including facial mutilations, but did not quite know how or what.

all 3 murders are linked due to anti-semetism, the graffiti and Dutfields yard.

Which THREE? I see no antisemitism whatsoever in the murder of MJK.

dont expect JTR to always kill exactly the same, because what you're looking at instead

But you seem to be arguing that the murders are linked because of similarities!!

...this killer is evolving and not only becomming more hideous, but his ego is growing all the time, he's becoming more brash and arrogant, just like Zodiac, so he's starting to leave messages, taunting the police and then to top it all we have his ``GRAND FINALE``.

This is circular reasoning and thus flawed.

You rely on the identification of the number of murders to then determine motive. But what if you are wrong? What is McKenzie was a Ripper victim - there are many similarities to Nichols. Kelly is not then a climax. What if Kelly was not the work of "Jack"?

nothing after Kelly ? yes this is most odd, the killer left Whitechapel; almost definitely, it looks like Kelly and all the rubbish afterwards is him saying goodbye to us.

What do you mean by "all the rubbish afterwards - Hutchinson's doings? - you compound circular reasoning, unfounded conclusions with still more baseless hypothecation.

But there may have been killings after Kelly, as I have mentioned already. Also there are other reasons for an end to the series - suicide, illness, incarceration, mental collapse, to name but a few.

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

I knew Glenn, actually met him once when he was living and working in the UK. He knew a lot about the Ripper and was much more of a criminologist than I.

I thought he was still around a few months back. No idea what he is doing now though. (His last post on here was 25 April 2010.

Phil

Hi Phil

In regard to Glenn Andersson, I am in contact with him through Facebook. I asked him if he might have been coming to the recent Whitechapel Society conference but he indicated that he was unable to do so. He was at one time resident in the UK but now is back in Sweden, I understand.

All the best

Chris

[Malcolm X]

oh yes, i do realise that the other murders could be him too, plus there are many reasons for the murders to finally stop, this goes without saying.

but for me the climax is Kelly and this murder is part of a trio, the other murders afterwards could be him downgrading or another killer !

dont forget that if JTR is indeed GH, then he's in real trouble if he carries on mutilating, simply because he's been seen by maybe as many as 20 police officers, (when he went to the station plus over the next 2 days)... and any one of these could recognise him again 3 weeks later.... VERY EASILY!

so this is a valid reason to explain the ripper murders stopping..... but only if JTR is GH.

[Wickerman]

dont forget that if JTR is indeed GH, then he's in real trouble if he carries on mutilating, simply because he's been seen by maybe as many as 20 police officers, (when he went to the station plus over the next 2 days)... and any one of these could recognise him again 3 weeks later.... VERY EASILY!

so this is a valid reason to explain the ripper murders stopping..... but only if JTR is GH.

Malcolm, but if Hutch was Jack, why would he come forward in the first place?

Jon

[Malcolm X]

Malcolm, but if Hutch was Jack, why would he come forward in the first place?

Jon

he couldn't resist inserting himself into the case, either to boost his ego or to further his anti semetic hatred, not sure.

because the description of him seen waiting outside isn't nearly GOOD enough to bother him, in fact, it's one of the worst suspect descriptions of all !

if he is JTR, he is as safe as houses, because without any evidence anywhere, the only way to nail him is if admits to being JTR, he went to Abberline knowing that he was seen outside...... GOOD, he now looks like a legitimate witness, the only thing that the police are interested in, is to catch LA DE DA as soon as possible, GH helps them even more by saying that he thought he saw him in Petticoat lane, his description is so good that this leads the police investigation in totally the wrong direction..a wild goose chase, it's actually quite amusing in a sick way !

it's not ``i fought the law and the law won``, it's the other way around

all of this is realised later, but GH is dismissed as a reward seeking time waster.... but by then this GH has probably left Whitechapel anyway.

this inserting himself into the case wouldn't work today, he'd be sussed out very quickly, because too many Yanks have tried this trick recently and ended up being caught out.... but back then they didn't have this FBI serial killer profiling.

going to the police is bloody stupid yes, but only nowadays!

but there is far more with regards to GH, i've only briefly mentioned part of it