Striking after being seen?

[Phil H]

The Ripper was communicating something to the police, and us, but that’s not to say it was occult by any means.

Tom - how and why do you convert likelihoods, possibilities and perhapses into such unwarranted certainty?

We have NO IDEA whether the Ripper was communicating something to the police - let alone US.

"Jack" may not have had the first idea what he was doing - other than that it was "fun", he could do it, and he had never done it before. Spontaneous, not consciously motivated, perverse...

[mariab]

However, it is possible that the killer knew of the police interest in photographing the eyes of the deceased so he slit her eyes vertically.

Wow, that's a new idea. It would seem absurd to us today, but as doctors and educated men of the time humored the notion that our eyes record the last thing we see, like a photo, why wouldn't a killer think it possible?

Now that could make sense, really.

As for the cheek/nose theory, unless the Ripper went to work with a sword and made very long strokes, I don't see it as feasible. And again, that doesn't explain the smaller, clearly intentional inverted V's.

Tom - how and why do you convert likelihoods, possibilities and perhapses into such unwarranted certainty?
We have NO IDEA whether the Ripper was communicating something to the police - let alone US. "Jack" may not have had the first idea what he was doing - other than that it was "fun", he could do it, and he had never done it before. Spontaneous, not consciously motivated, perverse...

Precisely, I'm with Phil H. here. I think Tom's previous interest in D'Onston and in the horror genre gets a bit in the way here, making him seek an “explanation“ or a “message“, like if this were a movie script.
Such facial postmortem disfigurement also sounds medieval and perhaps reminiscent of war (with bayonettes and stuff).
The same about collecting the organs. It doesn't make any “sense“ whatsoever to a sane person either, though it could be explained as collecting trophies, cannibalism, whatnot.

[Monty]

The Ripper was communicating something to the police, and us, but that’s not to say it was occult by any means.

Tom - how and why do you convert likelihoods, possibilities and perhapses into such unwarranted certainty?

We have NO IDEA whether the Ripper was communicating something to the police - let alone US.

"Jack" may not have had the first idea what he was doing - other than that it was "fun", he could do it, and he had never done it before. Spontaneous, not consciously motivated, perverse...

Not that you'll be bothered Phil, but I'm begining to like you.

Monty

[tji]

[QUOTE]

Wow, that's a new idea. It would seem absurd to us today, but as doctors and educated men of the time humored the notion that our eyes record the last thing we see, like a photo, why wouldn't a killer think it possible?

Hi Tom, no offense to Wicker, but I don't think this is a that new an idea, I have definitely heard it before, even Andre Chikatilo (was shot by firing squad in 1994) mutilated his first few victims and stabbed them in the eyes, it did puzzle the detectives at the time the change in MO when the bodies stopped turning up with their eyes stabbed, however when questioned Chikatilo said at first he believed that you could see the killer in the victims eyes, then he just stopped believing it, (doesn't say why) so he stopped. So even upto modern day times there was that belief there for some.

Tj

[Phil H]

Not that you'll be bothered Phil, but I'm begining to like you.

Monty! My heart is warmed. I'm not certain of the motives behind this road to damascus event, but my aim in life is to be without malice to anyone - so thank you.

Phil

[Monty]

Phil,

Horns have been locked but the wounds arent deep. All part of the cut and thrust, bluff and bluster and never with claws fully exposed.

Motives? Common sense, simple as that.

Monty

[Phil H]

Thank you, Monty. Much appreciated.

Ooooohhh! I have a warm feeling inside!!

Phil

[Malcolm X]

we have no idea what JTR was up to with his knife and this will never reveal the killer, so there you go, or even give you any leads, we only need to know are these last 3 murders committed by JTR..... YES!

i'm afraid that R D ONSTON tainted many of us it's part and parcel of being on Ivors forum, all those years ago.

[lynn cates]

interpretation

Hello Malcolm. I have long regarded the facial wounds to indicate, "You saw what you shouldn't have seen; you've heard what you shouldn't have heard; you've stuck your nose where it didn't belong. Now take that."

Merely theorising.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

...we only need to know are these last 3 murders committed by JTR..... YES!

Just for clarity, Malcolm - what is the overall series you are considering here and which the "last three"?

Phil

[Malcolm X]

...we only need to know are these last 3 murders committed by JTR..... YES!

Just for clarity, Malcolm - what is the overall series you are considering here and which the "last three"?

Phil

i'm not sure about all the other murders yet, just the main 5, but i'm tending to include Tabram too.

last 3 being STRIDE, EDDOWES, KELLY, for the time being, i've never given the others much thought, but to me this is either JTR downgrading himself or another killer

[Malcolm X]

Hello Malcolm. I have long regarded the facial wounds to indicate, "You saw what you shouldn't have seen; you've heard what you shouldn't have heard; you've stuck your nose where it didn't belong. Now take that."

Merely theorising.

Cheers.
LC

yea maybe..... i see it as imbecilic, plus semi madness; especially MLK, but i try not to think about it too much.

he's very cold and calculating, he's also very very aware of time and the passage of time, in fact, he's got this perfectly sussed out.

he's not careless at all, he's highly street wise and aware of everything going on around him.

this is quite surprising to me, this is someone who knows the streets very well, but if he's part of a street vigilante group i'm not sure yet

.

[Phil H]

...last 3 being STRIDE, EDDOWES, KELLY...

That's interesting, Malcolm, as I increasingly see the links between Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and perhaps Mckenzie, but nowadays am less convinced that Stride and MJK were the Ripper's work. Tabram I see as a group attack akin to that on Smith.

Phil

[Malcolm X]

...last 3 being STRIDE, EDDOWES, KELLY...

That's interesting, Malcolm, as I increasingly see the links between Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and perhaps Mckenzie, but nowadays am less convinced that Stride and MJK were the Ripper's work. Tabram I see as a group attack akin to that on Smith.

Phil

that member Glenn Larson ? from years ago was like you too, he had exactly the same ideas as you, no idea what happened to him.

i have to admit to being totally dumb about the other murders because i've only ever briefly looked at them, but i'm most suspicious of Mackenzie and Coles, but only from memory.

Tabram i used to say definitely wasn't, but now this looks like a very clumsy vigilante style street murder, that reminds me of Pipeman and BS, but nothing more.

all of these murders (torsos included) look like a group of street thugs, with one of these being JTR, he of course stands out from the others, the others seem to be idiots compared to him, and of these other two, one of these is maybe Pipeman.

Pipeman could be somebody like LE GRAND, but that's for somebody else to sort out

it looks like to me that JTR was friends with these guys, but wasn't always with them when killing, or they were together far more on nights when there were no murders planned.

like a bunch of football hooligans, that drink together during the week, but only fight at matches on the weekends, i dont know, it just feels like this that's all.

so whoever JTR is, he is definitely no fool and unlikely to be a 22 year old Toppy, this Toppy seems far too lightweight, i think this other GH is going to be virtually impossible to figure out.

he's somebody that others respect, he's about 30, dark and a nasty piece of work, but he is also somebody that doesn't appear to be JTR, thus he was able to fool Abberline...

this is such a confusing mess, we have Dutfields, the graffiti, then the LA DE DA Jew, whatever the case, to me it seems highly suspicious and quite obvious too, but then again it's so easy to have a favourite suspect and the easiest person to fool is always yourself...

[Phil H]

I knew Glenn, actually met him once when he was living and working in the UK. He knew a lot about the Ripper and was much more of a criminologist than I.

I thought he was still around a few months back. No idea what he is doing now though. (His last post on here was 25 April 2010.

Phil