"Crime Scene" Sketch.

[lynn cates]

Sugden

Hello Roy.

"Why does it matter? That's what I'm asking Lynn, Simon, or anyone. I'm not getting it again."

Well, if you take John's story full strength and trace his and Kate's movements from Thursday until her murder, you find nothing save a mare's nest of confusion.

I first ran into this in Sugden's book. He spent much time trying to answer the inevitable questions whilst I, like you now, wondered why it mattered. Now I see clearly that John and Kate were up to something. But what?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

the mundane

Hello Neil. I'd be delighted if you could explain that mundane reality.

Just for starters, where did John get the money to keep himself fed and housed from the morning after Kate left until he gave his story?

But perhaps he found work on Saturday AFTER Kate left? Then why not pop round to Bishopsgate station and tell Kate to cancel her trek to Bermondsey? After all, he had plenty of time--he knew about her being gaoled 15 minutes before she was arrested. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Trevor Marriott]

Hello Neil. I'd be delighted if you could explain that mundane reality.

Just for starters, where did John get the money to keep himself fed and housed from the morning after Kate left until he gave his story?

But perhaps he found work on Saturday AFTER Kate left? Then why not pop round to Bishopsgate station and tell Kate to cancel her trek to Bermondsey? After all, he had plenty of time--he knew about her being gaoled 15 minutes before she was arrested. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Lynn
Dont forget that when Kelly did come forward he specifically asked if he could look at the band inside her bonnet where he knew she hid her money.

[Monty]

But the reality as some would have us believe is at times questionable.

No one saw Eddowes anymore after she left the police station. Despite the fact that there were a number of police officers both in uniform and plain clothes in the immediate area.

So what can we deduce

1. She went straight to Mitre Sq met the killer and was murdered. If that be the case then Pc Watkins didnt tell the truth about his movements or he failed to spot her body when he entered the square at 1.35am.

2. She went in the direction of Mitre sq en route she finds somewhere to get a drink either meets the killer there or soon after leaving wherever she had been, going then straight to the square to her death.

3. She leaves the police station and then decides to make her way home at some point before arriving home she thinks better of it, having regard to the fact that she belived she was going to get a good hiding. She then decides to go back towards the city with a view to perhaps prostituting herself. This might explain why no one saw her wandering or loitering about in the area of Mitre square. She had ample time to do this and could have past by the Goulston Street archway. On arriving back at Mitre Square she meets her killer and her death.

As someone said you pays your money and you takes your choice where is the reality ? The only reality is that she was murdered by an unknown killer.

There's a few other scenarios you have missed, including the official and most plausible.

And there is nothing unusual in no reported sightings, given the time and the possibility Eddowes knowledge.


Lynn,

I do not find it mundane.

Monty

[lynn cates]

agreed

Hello Neil. Ah! No more do I.

So we are agreed?

Very well.

Cheers.
LC

[Roy Corduroy]

Lynn, I don't see how John Kelly's actions, his finances, or anything he said has any bearing on her murder. At all. He's Just an elderly dosser. Kate's companion. What on earth could they be "up to?"

You may begin now to tell me what it was.

Roy

[lynn cates]

pawns in teh game

Hello Roy. Just an elderly dosser? Hmm, then why all the, er, miscorrespondences with the truth? (Like how I handled that one?)

Start with his pawning story. What's wrong with it?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

It would be quicker to say what's right about the whole of John Kelly's story.

Not much.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

truth

Hello Simon. Well, that's true enough.

Hmm, let me see. Ah, they were a bit short of cash?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

. . . and had just walked 35 miles in less than a day.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Might not the darkness of Mitre Square have played a part in the general sloppiness of the Ripper's operation, when compared to Hanbury Street?

Do get a grip, Tom.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

[lynn cates]

Forward, march!

Hello Simon. Yes, real troopers.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

Up To Something

Well, if you take John's story full strength and trace his and Kate's movements from Thursday until her murder, you find nothing save a mare's nest of confusion.

I first ran into this in Sugden's book. He spent much time trying to answer the inevitable questions whilst I, like you now, wondered why it mattered. Now I see clearly that John and Kate were up to something. But what?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

A wild flight of fancy:-

Up to something? According to Kelly he and Kate had been hop-picking in Kent for several weeks. They supposedly walked 35 miles in one day - because...? Because they were in a hurry?

There had also been no Ripper murders during the three weeks prior to their return after which (allegedly) Kate had boasted of knowing the identity of the killer. How might you suddenly learn the identity of a killer who had been inactive for several weeks? By spending time in his company in an environment where he might have dropped his guard momentarily?

A day or two later the Ripper strikes again, Kate is the victim (or one of two) and has strange facial mutilations, including to the eyes and one ear. Did JtR also go hop-picking, I wonder? It would be one possible explanation for three weeks with no murder. It would also be a way for him to leave London without arousing suspicion.

If you'd been to Kent and something had happened while you were there to cause you to suspect a particular individual - and if you mistakenly thought there was a reward - what would you do? Get back to London a.s.a.p. and head for Fleet Street?

If you were JtR and thought you were suspected by someone who suddenly disappeared from your camp-site in Kent, what would you do? Get back to London a.s.a.p. and put her name at the top of your list?

As I said, just a wild flight of fancy - but if they were "up to something"?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Monty

There's a few other scenarios you have missed, including the official and most plausible.

Surely if its official there is no need to consider its plausibilty

And there is nothing unusual in no reported sightings, given the time and the possibility Eddowes knowledge.

You may not think it unusual but given the scenarios I think it is relevant. If due to the lateness there were not many people on the streets then given the number of police around and where they were positioned and given their beats one might have expected to her to be seen or if not noticeably seen at the time their memories might be refreshed after the event.

However if she was intending to go back to her lodgings and did get close to there and then decided agisnt it and came back then she would of course have cut through the back streets and then less likely to be seen. So that then narrows the scenarios down slightly would you not agree.

I refer to page 157 The A-Z " and shortly before she died she was probably seen talking to a strange man at a dark corner in a direction leading away from the lodging house where she was staying"

Lynn,

I do not find it mundane.

Monty

[Bridewell]

And there is nothing unusual in no reported sightings, given the time and the possibility Eddowes knowledge.

You may not think it unusual but given the scenarios I think it is relevant. If due to the lateness there were not many people on the streets then given the number of police around and where they were positioned and given their beats one might have expected to her to be seen or if not noticeably seen at the time their memories might be refreshed after the event.

What reason was there to notice her? Until she was killed she was just another drab.

I refer to page 157 The A-Z " and shortly before she died she was probably seen talking to a strange man at a dark corner in a direction leading away from the lodging house where she was staying"

Do you not see this as being perhaps a newspaper's garbled version of the Lawende sighting on Church Passage? "In a direction leading away from the lodging house where she was staying" could be in any direction, couldn't it? The phrase is effectively meaningless.

Regards, Bridewell.