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  • Official description

    Press reports contain several versions of an "official description" of Eddowes:

    "Age forty; length, 5ft.; dark auburn hair; hazel eyes; dressed in a black jacket, with imitation fur collar and three large metal buttons; brown bodice; dark green chintz skirt, of Michaelmas and Gordon lily pattern, and with three flounces; thin white vest, light drab lindsey skirt, dark green alpaca petticoat, white chemise; brown ribbed stockings, mended at foot with piece of white stocking; black straw bonnet, trimmed with black beads and green and black velvet; large white handkerchief round neck. She wore a pair of men's old lace-up boots, and a piece of coarse white apron. The letters "T.C." were tattooed on the left forearm in blue ink."
    St James Gazette, 1 October 1888.


    "Age about 40, length five feet, dark auburn hair, hazel eyes. Dress - black jacket with imitation fur collar, three large metal buttons, brown boddice, dark green chintz (with Michaelmas daisy and Gordon lily pattern), skirt (three flounces), thin white vest, light drab linsey underskirt, dark green alpaca petticoat, white chemise, brown ribbed stockings, mended at feet with piece of white stocking, black straw bonnet trimmed with black beads and green and black velvet, large white handkerchief round neck, a pair of men's old laced boots, and a piece of coarse white apron. The deceased had T. C. on left forearm tattoed in blue ink. "
    Evening News, 1 October 1888.


    The Irish Times of 1 October prints a description virtually identical to that in the Evening News, but the two versions above differ so much in wording that it's difficult to believe they come from a common written source. They read more as though they are based on notes of an oral briefing.

    I wondered if anyone knew of a more official version of this official description.

  • #2
    Maybe its just me, but....aside from the differences in a few descriptive words arent the 2 lists above virtually identical in terms of contents? Its not like they couldn't have originated from one source.

    Maybe I missed something.

    Best regards

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    • #3
      Has Michael's post gone in out of sequence there? I'm sure it wasn't there before.

      Blimey, this post is out of sequence too.
      Last edited by Robert; 10-23-2009, 11:26 PM. Reason: Wormholes in space-time

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Robert View Post
        Has Michael's post gone in out of sequence there? I'm sure it wasn't there before.

        Blimey, this post is out of sequence too.
        This must be The Matrix Robert.....like the black cat thing, a systems glitch.....

        Cheers Mate

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        • #5
          Originally posted by perrymason View Post
          Its not like they couldn't have originated from one source.
          What I suggested was that they didn't originate from a common written source. Not unless one or other of the papers was employing an extremely inaccurate copyist.

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          • #6
            Chris, John Omlor sent me a part of the handwritten police notes, to show some wording connected with the Diary problem, so presumably he has all of it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Robert View Post
              Chris, John Omlor sent me a part of the handwritten police notes, to show some wording connected with the Diary problem, so presumably he has all of it.
              I think that would be the inventory of Eddowes's possessions ("tin match box empty"), which is among the inquest records and is printed on pp. 226-228 of the Ultimate Sourcebook. That covers the clothing in great detail, but doesn't include any personal description.

              The reason I'm interested is that according to some press reports, Joseph Hyam Levy estimated that the man he saw was about three inches taller than the woman he was with. If the woman was Eddowes and if she was 5 feet tall, that would make the suspect about 5 feet, 3 inches tall.

              That's quite a big difference from Lawende's estimate that the man was 5 feet, 7 or 8 inches tall, and it could perhaps be argued that Levy's estimate might be more accurate, as he was estimating only the relatively small difference between the heights of the man and the woman, whereas Lawende was simply estimating the man's height.

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              • #8
                Chris,

                I, too, have placed more credence in Levy's statement because he was talking about comparative, rather than absolute, heights. At the same time, he was also talking about apparent heights. That is, I am told by those who should know that the bonnets of the era (and the way they were worn) would add a good three inches to a women's apparent height. Factor in that the male observed also wore a cap, which might add a couple inches to his height; that both were wearing boots; that the male may have been leaning down just a bit the better to converse; that it was a quick glance in poor lighting, based on an after-the-fact recollection ,and so on and I have been satisfied that the man with Kate was likely around 5-5 and that would put him smack on the average for a male brought up in Whitechapel at that time.

                As for Lawende's estimate, remember he was being interviewed by the police and when asked for a height may well have cast aboutr the room, seen a PC and said "About that man's height, maybe a little shorter." Of course, the police of that time had height requirements that were greater than the average for the local populace and it is quite probable Lawende's estimate was skewed upward.

                In the end, though, the witness statements from those exiting the Imperial Club were based on recollections of a very brief look under ill-llt conditions and too much can not be read into the apparent discrepancies.

                Don.
                "To expose [the Senator] is rather like performing acts of charity among the deserving poor; it needs to be done and it makes one feel good, but it does nothing to end the problem."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chris View Post
                  What I suggested was that they didn't originate from a common written source. Not unless one or other of the papers was employing an extremely inaccurate copyist.
                  Point made and understood, thanks Chris. I agree.

                  Best regards

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