Kate's possessions

[Sam Flynn]

2 small blue bags made of bed ticking
2 short black clay pipes
1 tin box containing tea
1 tin box containing sugar
1 tin matchbox
12 pieces white rag, some slightly bloodstained
1 piece coarse linen, white
1 piece of blue and white shirting, 3 cornered
1 piece red flannel with pins and needles
6 pieces soap
1 small tooth comb
1 white handle table knife
1 metal teaspoon
1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings
1 ball hemp
1 piece of old white apron with repair
Several buttons and a thimble
Mustard tin containing two pawn tickets
Portion of a pair of spectacles
1 red mitten

... and a Puckridge in a pear tree!


The question is: why all this jumble, and why apparently so much more than the other victims? Could it have been that she had just returned from a "holiday" in the hop-fields of Kent, and that she therefore needed to take the extra payload with her?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Hi Gareth,

My question would actually be the opposite, namely why the others didn't have more stuff on them than they did.

In my book I referred to Kate as a "Victorian baglady" because that was in reality what she was, homelss and constantly on the move with no firm adress and therefore keeping every possession with her, Considering such a life-style, Kate's massive collection of clothing and belongings are perfectly understandable and makes sense.

The mystery is why the characters like Nichols didn't walk around with the same amount of stuff, since she lived under similar circumstances (while Chapman appears to have stayed regularly at the same lodging house, as well as Stride when she wasn't with Kidney).

All the best

[BillieHoliday]

Hi Gareth,

My question would actually be the opposite, namely why the others didn't have more stuff on them than they did.

In my book I referred to Kate as a "Victorian baglady" because that was in reality what she was, homelss and constantly on the move with no firm adress and therefore keeping every possession with her, Considering such a life-style, Kate's massive collection of clothing and belongings are perfectly understandable and makes sense.

The mystery is why the characters like Nichols didn't walk around with the same amount of stuff, since she lived under similar circumstances (while Chapman appears to have stayed regularly at the same lodging house, as well as Stride when she wasn't with Kidney).

All the best

I suspect that because Kate was in a long term affectionate relationship, she never really lost her sense of pride nor her desire to nurture - whether it be a child or a man.

Those items she carried not only were essentials in her life but essentials in boyfriend Jim Kelly's life.
Tea and sugar - providing that first cup of cha in the morning to kickstart the day
Soap and toothbrush - to maintain some semblance of hygiene however bad the facilities

Thimble and buttons - suggests someone who took pride in her clothes and her man's appearance, however shabby they might be.

I wonder if the fact that Polly, Annie and Liz carried so little on their person reveals they had 'given up'?

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

A very good point, BillieHoliday, about many of the items being intended for two persons.

I also think you partly may be right on the last point regarding the others.
However, Chapman and Stride appears to have stayed regularly in the same lodging house (and Stride was living with Kidney when she wasn't residing in the 'White House') and in such case I assume there would be little point in walking around with a lot of clothing and possessions (and considering the risk of being subjected to stealing by other residents there it might also have been a good idea not to be in possession of too many things).
Kate and Nichols, on the other hand, appears to have been wandering around from place to place.

All the best

[Cap'n Jack]

methinks you are right, Sam, it was 'er 'opping kit.

[Robert]

Hi Glenn

The impression I get from the inquest testimony of Kelly and Wilkinson, is that Kelly and Kate had lived at the same lodging house for approximately seven years.

[John Bennett]

However, Chapman and Stride appears to have stayed regularly in the same lodging house (and Stride was living with Kidney when she wasn't residing in the 'White House')

This is what I understand....

Stride had been a regular boarder at No.32 Flower and Dean Street since c.1882. It is here where Dr Barnardo was alleged to have seen her. She also is alleged to have stayed with Kidney at 35 and 36 Devonshire Street. Kidney's address at the time of the murder, according to his testimony, is 38 Dorset Street (A-Z gives it as 33 Dorset Street). I think the Dorsets and the Devonshires have a tendency to get confused, depending on the sources.

Chapman had a regular bed at Crossingham's, 35 Dorset Street.

Eddowes and John Kelly apparently had been regulars at Cooney's Lodging House (formerly Smith's) at 55 Flower and Dean Street since c.1881. 'The White House' was at No.56, next door.

[Ally]

If my best friend and I were out walking and we both got killed, here's a list of our possessions ( most likely).

Mine: Purse the size of a business envelope which includes a flat wallet with credit cards, car keys, and if it's necessary feminine products and a pillbox.

My best friends possessions: purse the size of a briefcase, brush, makeup bag, cigarettes, lighter, matches, napkins, various receipts, papers, pens, pictures of family, checkbook, wallet, change purse, pack of gum, various odds and sundry I don't even want to hazard a guess at.

I think the difference in their possessions can be summed up simply by the fact that they were different women.

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

Robert and Johhn,

That's quite right about Cooney's now when I recall the details.
I think it might have been the fact that Eddowes had intended to stay at a workhouse that night since only one of them could afford the bed in the lodging house, that mayhave given me the impression that Eddowes and John Klly were more mobile. And I have no doubt that hey would have made that arrangement on prior occasions. But fair point.

All the best

[Sam Flynn]

I like it, Ally

[Cap'n Jack]

I liked it too, Sam, shame that Ally forgot to mention the truncheon she keeps in 'er 'andbag.

[Suzi]

OK interesting chaps- but girls I know agree here-

OK It depends on the size if the bag- and Let's be honest Kate didn't have a bag as such - She had pockets under her skirts (various)
All these wonders (!) had to be secreted into her 'pockets' as in the C17th -ithin her skirts

Now-If you were on your own- or even in a couple - some sort of tea-sugar and some coin in order to get some.... was a good option..- a cuppa tea was one of those things that kept you alive (Remember that line to Annie) failing that
a Gin did the buisiness for a short time I suppose!

X

[Ally]

That's adorable AP. But I live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. Truncheons are for pansies; I carry a .38 snub-nose Smith and Wesson with hollow points.

As you are every time, you are woefully outgunned when attempting to go up against me.

[Cap'n Jack]

Just make sure you keep out of the kitchen then, Ally.
Charles Henry and all that.
If Eddowes was a regular hopper, which I think she was, she would have had a 'hopping box', a sort of hopper's survival kit if you like, but as the song goes 'now me hopping money's all spent, I wish I never went hopping in Kent', so she flogged her hopping box and kept the remnants in her pockets.
There was virtually no crop that year.
I don't know about 'personating a fire engine in Whitechapel, I think it more likely she went to the Hop Exchange in Southwark and stood on her box.

[Jon Guy]

Hello

Kate probably picked up stuff she found lying around, like the single glove, or the portion of a pair of specs. Stuff, unlike Strides Swedish prayer book or her velvet, that could be carried quite easily, and would have been off loaded during the spring/summer months.

Chapman did leave a bottle of lotion by her bed in Crossinghams.

Stride was sneaking back to Devonshire St when Kidney was out to retrieve some of her possessions.