Shirt studs

[jerryd]

As we all know there are many conflicting stories in the enigma that is Jack the Ripper. Here is yet another that maybe someone can enlighten me on.

George Morris (one of my favorite characters in all this) states in the inquest,

"Did you see anything lying about that indicated what sort of man the murderer might be?"

"I saw the doctor pick up two studs out of the pool of blood and put them in the shell."

"But are there any signs of a struggle having taken place?"

"No, but the studs might have been worked out by the man's own exertions in using the knife."

Later, Superintendent Forster states,

"it was untrue that two shirt studs were found by the body in Mitre-square. The only articles of that kind were a couple of buttons that had been torn off the dead woman's dress."

This brings up a few questions in my mind.

A) Was George Morris watching over the doctor's shoulder when he was examining the body? I thought he went back to K&T. And if he were watching, what would it benefit him to lie about seeing the doctor pick up two studs from the pool of blood?

B) If he wasn't there, how did he know two studs were in the pool of blood?

C) Could Forster be mistaken since Morris states the doctor put them in the shell and Forster was not aware they even existed? (I'm assuming the shell was the apparatus used to transport the body to the mortuary?)

Any thoughts?

[Celesta]

If they were there, then maybe they disappeared after her body arrived at the mortuary, or pinched sometime around that time.

Anyway, if they were really there, it implies someone who had the income to afford such decorative items, unless you have a man, such as the shabby genteel one, who had not yet been forced to hock them.

Unless of course they were the property of someone on hand, after she was found, and who lost them. Maybe had them in a pocket for some reason.

[Monty]

Jerry,

A) Was George Morris watching over the doctor's shoulder when he was examining the body? I thought he went back to K&T. And if he were watching, what would it benefit him to lie about seeing the doctor pick up two studs from the pool of blood?

He did return to the warehouse once he arrived back with Holland and Harvey. The facts were that Segeant Jones (not the doctor) found 3 buttons (not studs) near the bodys left side and instantly handed them over to Inspector Collard. It seems that Morris, if indeed Morris did say these words, was relying on hearsay and embellished. Why? Because of social status I suspect.

B) If he wasn't there, how did he know two studs were in the pool of blood?

Again, pure guess work, but I suspect his beat Officer PC Watkins told him. Watkins was a fairly old hand at his beat, or rather 'regular' as the PC himself states. Morris and Watkins would have known each other (infact it was part of Watkins job to know who the nightwatchmen were on his beats just incase assistance was required, a la the discovery of Eddowes body).

Due to the Stars report, we know that Morris and Watkins were back on duty the following day and were talking about the murder. I dare say that they did talk to eack other at some stage about the crime.

C) Could Forster be mistaken since Morris states the doctor put them in the shell and Forster was not aware they even existed? (I'm assuming the shell was the apparatus used to transport the body to the mortuary?)

Foster wasnt mistaken in a sense.

Monty

[jerryd]

Again, pure guess work, but I suspect his beat Officer PC Watkins told him. Watkins was a fairly old hand at his beat, or rather 'regular' as the PC himself

Hi Monty,

George Morris states, "I saw the doctor....."

Being an ex-cop himself, can't we assume GJM's story has some merit?

[LadyG]

Shirt studs were not purely decorative items, if we are talking studs, collar and placket (sp?) studs and not cuffs. They were made of a variety of materials, mass produced and some of very cheap quality. Since they were commonly worn well into the 1920s, the favorite materials and styles altered a bit over time. But there were some very fancy ones available to the well to do. Wonder where those 'buttons' ended up!

[Jon Guy]

Hello

Inspector Collard at the inquest :


The medical gentlemen examined the body, and in my presence Sergeant Jones picked up from the foot way by the left side of the deceased three small black buttons, such as are generally used for boots, a small metal button, a common metal thimble, and a small penny mustard tin containing two pawn-tickets. They were handed to me.