Kate's fire engine performance

[Celesta]

Anything Dan Farson has published needs to be taken with a large grain of salt - he shamelessly embellished whatever anyone told him, and most of his research was of the cut and paste variety, in later life anyway.

I knew Dan quite well and worked with him on his book on Francis Bacon (to save him from himself, not for the money LOL) and I was quite put out that he jumbled up several of the stories I got for him (and painstakingly gave him in typed up notes!).

"Yes but they make better stories the way I've told it, and they have more of a poetic truth like that!" was his explanation

I've heard this about him, Sara. It must have been pretty frustrating. Trying to get someone to do something they ought to do gets to be a daunting task. I imagine that history was recorded by a large number of people who were more interested in "poetic truth" than the real thing.

[aspallek]

Anything Dan Farson has published needs to be taken with a large grain of salt - he shamelessly embellished whatever anyone told him, and most of his research was of the cut and paste variety, in later life anyway.

I knew Dan quite well and worked with him on his book on Francis Bacon (to save him from himself, not for the money LOL) and I was quite put out that he jumbled up several of the stories I got for him (and painstakingly gave him in typed up notes!).

"Yes but they make better stories the way I've told it, and they have more of a poetic truth like that!" was his explanation

Having seen the cache of correspondence from Dan in the Winchester College archives I can attest to the fact that he conducted primary research on Druitt.

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

Hi J.r-ahde and thank you for your welcome. I must say the night of the double event is particularly terrifying to think about. I was in Mitre Square again today and I really do find it the most unsettling place. It was broad daylight (even though overcast) but it seems to possess a most disturbing 'dark' quality as if the location has a distinct personality of its own. Even though there is a primary school on the site now and the children were playing in the playground when I was there this just seemed to add to the sinister feel of the place, a visit there is certainly a most unnerving experience.

[Celesta]

Hello Spitalfields Wanderer,

Welcome to the Casebook.

You have a point about Kate having to pass the fire station and that something there might have inspired her to do a fire engine imitation, but no record exists, to anyone's knowledge, that she really did an imitation, either before or after her arrest. The arresting officer doesn't mention such a performance. It's a great story though!

Best,
Cel

Hi Jukka!

[kensei]

Hi J.r-ahde and thank you for your welcome. I must say the night of the double event is particularly terrifying to think about. I was in Mitre Square again today and I really do find it the most unsettling place. It was broad daylight (even though overcast) but it seems to possess a most disturbing 'dark' quality as if the location has a distinct personality of its own. Even though there is a primary school on the site now and the children were playing in the playground when I was there this just seemed to add to the sinister feel of the place, a visit there is certainly a most unnerving experience.

Hello again SW, I'm sorry if my earlier "sorry to point out the obvious" comment offended you, I just wasn't aware there were accounts of the fire engine performance taking place after Kate's release rather than before her arrest. As for Mitre Square, I've been there too (twice on tours by night and once in daylight by myself) and I agree it has an eerie quality. Six months ago I took the walk there from the Stride site to see how long it would take (14 minutes), then spent considerable time in the square shooting video which ended up getting me approached, questioned and searched by two police officers for filming in proximity to security cameras. Oops. (They were very polite about it though.) As the exact spot where Kate's body was found is known there next to the benches, I cringed a little as I was filming it every time a passer by walked over it with no idea. But I guess we can't expect everyone to know, or to care as much as we do.

[Monty]

Kensei,

As the exact spot where Kate's body was found is known there next to the benches, I cringed a little as I was filming it every time a passer by walked over it with no idea. But I guess we can't expect everyone to know, or to care as much as we do.

Its a general miscionception that the paving at that spot is as was in 1888. It isnt. Todays paving is slightly more toward Mitre Street.

Kates body was actually situated just off the kirbing. However, its only a slight difference and I am being pedantic...as is my way.

Monty

[Spitalfields Wanderer]

Hello again SW, I'm sorry if my earlier "sorry to point out the obvious" comment offended you, I just wasn't aware there were accounts of the fire engine performance taking place after Kate's release rather than before her arrest. As for Mitre Square, I've been there too (twice on tours by night and once in daylight by myself) and I agree it has an eerie quality. Six months ago I took the walk there from the Stride site to see how long it would take (14 minutes), then spent considerable time in the square shooting video which ended up getting me approached, questioned and searched by two police officers for filming in proximity to security cameras. Oops. (They were very polite about it though.) As the exact spot where Kate's body was found is known there next to the benches, I cringed a little as I was filming it every time a passer by walked over it with no idea. But I guess we can't expect everyone to know, or to care as much as we do.

Hi Kensei - no offence taken! I am so pleased you feel the same way about Mitre Square - were the police officers generally sympathetic when they understood your reason for filming? Poor you being searched as well! I made one visit there when I tried to work out just how narrow Church Passage was in 1888 and I got some very strange looks from passers by. I also always find the children playing so happily in the playground bordering right on to where Kate was found adds to my uncomfortable feelings about the site.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Spitalfields Wanderer!

I agree with you in the following sense;

I did visit London in April 2007. On one wednesday there I happened to visit both Kensington and Whitechapel. The latter one was murkier...

Now, dear londoners, you may very well correct me, if I'm wrong, but;

My impression is, that Kensington is a bit better-off people's place ...

All the best
Jukka

[Suzi]

Hi Mont!
I can be pedantic too but I agree here- Let's not get into that 'cobbles' /setts disagreement!!! ................And I must reiterate that, I agree- there was (rather sadly) no fire engine impression - or any other-when poor Kate was found slumped against that doorway in Aldgate High St.

Hi Jukka-
Kensington is miles off- in every sense to/from Whitechapel! x

[Sam Flynn]

How would one do an impression of a Victorian fire engine, anyway? Aurally, surely they went "ding-a-ling", just like many other things. That being the case, how could one have told if someone was impersonating a fire engine, an alarm, a school bell or a pleasure-boat? Unless one was weeing on some lit matches whilst making such sounds, the impression could have been of any of the above.

[kensei]

Hi Kensei - no offence taken! I am so pleased you feel the same way about Mitre Square - were the police officers generally sympathetic when they understood your reason for filming? Poor you being searched as well! I made one visit there when I tried to work out just how narrow Church Passage was in 1888 and I got some very strange looks from passers by. I also always find the children playing so happily in the playground bordering right on to where Kate was found adds to my uncomfortable feelings about the site.

Were the police officers- one male and one female- generally sympathetic as to the Ripper subject? Well, yes and no. After they questioned me thoroughly as to who I was and where I was from, what I was doing there etc., made me empty my pockets and my bag, show every card I had in my wallet, and rewound the tape in my video camera to see what I'd been filming- a detainment that took about 20 minutes- they let me go about my business and even continue filming, but they seemed fairly detached as to the Ripper subject as if they had heard of it and understood it was a subject of interest but had only limited knowledge of it themselves. In spite of all that, they really were very polite about the whole process and kept telling me I wasn't in any trouble, that they were searching me under the Terrorism Act only because they had to, and the male officer said, "The reason we do this is because just a few years ago, not half a mile from here, we had a 30-foot hole blown in the street." (July 7, 2005, of course.)

[Suzi]

How would one do an impression of a Victorian fire engine, anyway? Aurally, surely they went "ding-a-ling", just like many other things. That being the case, how could one have told if someone was impersonating a fire engine, an alarm, a school bell or a pleasure-boat? Unless one was weeing on some lit matches whilst making such sounds, the impression could have been of any of the above.

Working on one for the London Big Job!!!

[Robert]

Hi Gareth

They were steam engines, so I imagine there would have been "pshh" noises etc.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67307569@N00/1434315226/

[Mascara & Paranoia]

xD That's so cute.

Poor Kate. =[

[Supe]

Since this story is almost assuredly a modern invention, trying to fathom how Eddowes "imitated" a fire engine is rather twice-removed fantasy. Sort of like musing on the size of the hatchet with which George Washingron cut down his father's cherry tree,

Don.