1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings

[Observer]

Hi Suzi, and David

I'm surprised then that all that seems to have come down though the years is Kate Eddowes shawl, and it's authenticity is in question at that. You know it's a long time since the murders, 120 years this year, that cigarette case could have sat in the drawer of some police official only to be thrown out (with his demise,) by his children they not knowing it's significance. I'm raving now.

all the best

Observer

[Suzi]

I believe they did- and yes Mc Carthy did refuse- now YES that is morbid- or just plain worrying!!!

[DVV]

I remember somebody tried to buy Mary's bed.
Isn't that morbid?
Mc Carthy refused.

[Suzi]

Oooooh yes sure they were- but where???- who knows 'eh........

[Observer]

By the way I wonder what happened to those items Found on Kate Eddowes? Surely whoever eventually came into possesion of the red leather cigarette case would have realised the significance of the article. Were the Victorians collectors of such morbid items?

all ther best

Observer

[Observer]

No need for apologies Sam, speculation (raving or otherwise) solved many a crime.

all the best

Observer

[joelhall]

probably hers. i doubt the boots were his only pair too. if he bought them coming back from hopping that suggests he was working bare-foot all that time? doubtful cos he wouldnt be walking much with all the damage to his feet.

perhaps he bought them to pawn, or maybe just got a new pair cos his were all banged up and decided they were expendable later realising how little funding they had left?

anyway again regarding the cigarette case, why would the killer leave it behind?

[Suzi]

He he all rants/raves excused at this time of night on a Sunday Sam!!

Yes I remember that wonderful talk from Dave Morris re 'that sort of thing'

Hmmmmm.. I honestly don't think that it *'belonged' to Kate,despite the fact that it was picked up alongside her body- Now whether it was something she had on her person an heirloom/a gift/or something dropped I don't know...tantalising though isn't it...

* When I say it didn't belong to her maybe I mean it wasn't hers to sell/pawn...I know what I mean....sorry if this isn't making sense!!

[Sam Flynn]

I think I need to read up. However the bones of the thread revolves around whether the cigarette case could have been owned by the killer.

...then it is I who should have done some reading-up, Observer, at least in terms of the premise of this thread Of course, given that the cigarette case was found among Kate's apparent possessions doesn't mean it was legitimately hers. Casting aside the syrup of my previous suggestion - viz., that it might have been a memento of her roots - it's also possible that she had accepted it "in kind" from someon with a view to pawning it later; or pilfered it from some unsuspecting bloke - perhaps Jack himself! That display of apparent affection witnessed by Lawende and co., when Kate had her arm resting on the chest of yer man, might have been nothing of the kind. "You gotta pick a pocket or two..."

(Apologies for raving speculation.)

[Observer]

Ouch Sam

I think I need to read up. However the bones of the thread revolves around whether the cigarette case could have been owned by the killer. Bearing in mind that it was found on her person I think It unlikely.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

Yep good point Sam- but it is odd isn't it- maybe it was an heirloom...

I recall, from Dave Morris's talk at Ripperconf '07, that Wolverhampton and Birmingham drew on the expertise of those who worked in the tinplate industry to make "fancy goods" of various kinds during the 19th Century, and "white metal" could certainly have been a tin alloy of some kind. A quick Google shows the odd antique cigarette-case from Birmingham cropping up at auction, so who knows...?

[Suzi]

Yep good point Sam- but it is odd isn't it- maybe it was an heirloom or something from a Dad /Uncle/Lover or whatever...if it was... and she didn't pawn it... although the temptation/need must have been there-Kate goes even further up my list of wonderful canonical victims!! (If that's possible!)

[Sam Flynn]

I mean surely they realised that the killer could have dropped such an item.

As far as we know, the cigarette case was found on Kate's person - amongst the other paraphernalia found in her pockets. The only (inorganic) items found on the ground near her body were a thimble and some buttons, as far as I can recall.

Thinks: might this "white metal" cigarette case have been a souvenir of her days in the Black Country, a cheap heirloom perhaps?

[Observer]

Hi Suzi

It would be remiss of the police would it not, if they did not check with Kelly whether Eddowes owned a red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings? I mean surely they realised that the killer could have dropped such an item.

all the best

Observer

[Suzi]

Odd Very odd Maybe Jack gave it to her as payment and forgot to take it away with him

Hey belinda- Still reeling from your wonderful At The Gate re Liz- perhaps there's a Kate /Cig case story here OMG!!!!!!!!!!
xxx