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Eddowes Fourth Child

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  • Eddowes Fourth Child

    I did this research back in 2015 but I didn't realise I hadn't posted it here on Casebook (it's on JTR Forums) until someone just asked me about it:

    On the third February 1877 at the Union Infirmary, Greenwich, Catherine Eddowes, a hawker, gave birth to a son, Frederick William and registered him on 21st Feb 1877. Unlike the births of Catherine and Alfred who were registered with the surname Conway and their father's name given as Thomas Conway, Frederick's father is unnamed.

    Catherine entered the Greenwich Infirmary from the Woolwich Rd workhouse and returned there after the birth on 20th Feb.
    To corroborate that this is Catherine Eddowes; Eddowes older children, Catherine and Thomas were also admitted to the workhouse on 23rd Feb 1877 and a note says their mother is in the workhouse.

    The family appear in workhouse records many times (I've found over 20), using both the surnames, Conway and Eddowes. Catherine used Kate and Catherine in different combinations also. She seems to have kept different surnames for different unions and is always Eddowes in Greenwich, which may explain why Frederick was registered as Eddowes, rather than Conway.

    Thomas Conway jnr is listed with the middle name Lawrence in one workhouse entry but like Neal shelden, I haven't been able to trace a birth registration for Thomas.

    I have been unable to trace Frederick after 1878 nor can I find a death for him.

    Eddowes seems to have had links to Mill Lane near the Woolwich Barracks. It was occupied by soldiers and their families in married quarters and also in 1871 there are several vans parked up with families of 'licensed hawkers' in the area. One entry says Eddowes 'Pesters on Mill Lane', another tells us her two children were abandoned there by their parents, while she was still with Conway.


    I have since found that the older children, Catherine and Thomas, were sent to South Metropolitan schools on a couple of occasions when their mother was in the infirmary or apparently, thanks to Gary Barnett's find, while their mother was in prison. This was the equivalent of being taken in to care and coming in the 1870's suggests that Thomas Conway was not taking sole care of his children at this time.

    Is anyone able to find out what happened to Frederick William? I drew a blank He may have been adopted and so untraceable. I haven't been able to find a death for him. One of Catherine's distant relatives also had a child named Frederick born in 1877 as far as I remember.
    ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

    I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

  • #2
    Thank you.

    If you can’t find it I doubt I can.

    But I’ll have a look around anyway.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      Debs,

      Have you investigated the Jun, 1892 death of a 25-year-old Frederick William Eddowes in Kensington?

      Gary
      Last edited by MrBarnett; 03-10-2018, 04:47 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Debs,

        Have you investigated the Jun, 1892 death of a Frederick W. Eddowes in Kensington?

        Gary

        Scrap that, he's too old.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks GUT and Gary. Any ideas or possibles are welcome.
          ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

          I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Debra A View Post
            Thanks GUT and Gary. Any ideas or possibles are welcome.
            I'll keep my eyes peeled. But, as GUT says, if you can't find him...

            Comment


            • #7
              Theres one in Aus that could fit, sill trying to find a few more snippets.
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #8
                Giffin Street

                In one of the workhouse records in Greenwich it 's written the address 4 Giffin Street under Catherine Eddowes and her childrens entry.
                My mother originally came from Deptford and she told me once that Giffin Street (Off of Deptford High Street) used to be very rough and smelly. Not sure what she meant by that she said it stunk so I assume it was drains or sewers.

                Pat......

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paddy View Post
                  In one of the workhouse records in Greenwich it 's written the address 4 Giffin Street under Catherine Eddowes and her childrens entry.
                  My mother originally came from Deptford and she told me once that Giffin Street (Off of Deptford High Street) used to be very rough and smelly. Not sure what she meant by that she said it stunk so I assume it was drains or sewers.

                  Pat......
                  No.4 Griffin St was right next door to Hill & Sons Candle and Soap works, which might explain the smell...?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Yes that would explain it. My nan used to take 2 of her children down to a tar factory to smell the tar. When I asked why she said because they weren't well.
                    Lots of smelly factories about in those days. The East End had quite a few...
                    I have vague memories of a vineger factory too.
                    It looks like Catherine Eddowes first lived in Deptford and then they moved to Walworth road area hence the different workhouses....

                    Pat.......

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I mentioned the address of 4 Giffin St over on forums but didn't know anything about the area so thanks for the added info about the factory, Paddy and JR.

                      ...I love the smell of coal tar.
                      ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                      I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GUT View Post
                        Theres one in Aus that could fit, sill trying to find a few more snippets.
                        Thanks, Gut. Any joy? In the criminal records of the LVP a lot of female convicts were encouraged to emigrate after serving their sentences (rather than the earlier procedure of sending prisoners abroad to penal colonies) but also there are cases where some convict files contain letters from organisations who were involved in the business of sending serving prisoner's children abroad for a new life are included, usually it involved women serving longer penal servitude sentences and their permission to send their children away was required but it wouldn't surprise me if they also sent away the infants of women regularly up in the magistrates court for drunkenness etc.
                        ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                        I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The records of the Foundlings Hospital at LMA are available to search for this period.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Robert View Post
                            The records of the Foundlings Hospital at LMA are available to search for this period.
                            Slightly off-topic, there is an interesting little exhibition - Criminal Lives - running at the LMA at the moment.


                            https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/thin...xhibition.aspx

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                              Thanks, Gut. Any joy? In the criminal records of the LVP a lot of female convicts were encouraged to emigrate after serving their sentences (rather than the earlier procedure of sending prisoners abroad to penal colonies) but also there are cases where some convict files contain letters from organisations who were involved in the business of sending serving prisoner's children abroad for a new life are included, usually it involved women serving longer penal servitude sentences and their permission to send their children away was required but it wouldn't surprise me if they also sent away the infants of women regularly up in the magistrates court for drunkenness etc.
                              And many just saw the chance for a fresh start, where they werent already seen as a trouble maker.

                              So far just a name and an age that could fit.

                              It can be a problem tracing people here that were born in England (or anywhere else for that matter) often parents names etc have just been ignored.
                              G U T

                              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                              Comment

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